Whether we want to keep Cam or not...

[blueandblackattack]

... it just wouldn't be fiscally responsible. Back then, the offense revolved around Cam and what he could do. But today, our focal point is Run CMC, and according to Spotrac's Estimated Market Value for CMC, his next contract will be worth $18m a year, almost as much as we pay Cam now. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/christian-mccaffrey-21749/market-value/

Sadly, with QB salaries rising to $30m in the not-so-distant future, it'd make more sense cap-wise to draft a QB, this year or next year, and let the rookie ride that cheap rookie contract for 4 years while Christian gets the bulk of it. And if CMC is still able to run as well as he does today when those 4 years come up, then that'll be another discussion. But, majority of the time, runningbacks after their 2nd contract have their tires pretty worn in.

So as much as I'd like to keep Cam and give him one more try in this RPO style offense, I just don't think the value is there. Because even if he does succeed, we wouldn't be able to pay him $25-30m a year plus Christians $18m (also, DJ Moores rookie contract will be up in a couple years too) without making the groundskeepers putting on a helmet on Sundays.

Just my .02

 

Long time lurker, first time posting in a long while. Love visiting the forum everyday and catching the latest rumors and debates. Thanks for reading!

[1of10Charnatives]

Okay, but this year we paid Cam 20 million and KK the 18 you say we can’t afford to pay CMC. The additional 10 million can easily be created by cutting dead weight non performing players along the way like..KK, or Trai Turner, or Paradis.

Don’t worry, it can be done without putting the team in cap hell. Tbh though, I’m not sure you’re asking the right question. I think the thing we maybe ought to be asking ourselves is whether it’s worth paying any back, even one as good as CMC, big money. It’s arguably the most fungible position in football and while CMC does have a unique skill set, some have made the argument that running backs just do not impact the game the way they once did, and matter little for anything but fantasy football.

[JawnyBlaze]

For next year it would be fiscally irresponsible to get rid of Cam if he’s healthy. The return on investment would be greatly in our favor, $20mil for a franchise QB is a steal.

Going beyond this year, again assuming he’s healthy, you give QBs third contracts long before you give RBs second contracts. I’d think we could keep both, especially since there’s no reason to believe Cam wouldn’t take a team friendly deal again like he did last time. But if you have to choose, you choose the QB. 
 

Brees has shoulder surgery like 15 years ago and is still going pretty strong.  Luck came back strong after his shoulder surgery after a year.  Plenty of players have had lisfranc injuries and recovered completely. No reason to believe Cam can’t do the same, especially since the two injuries don’t affect each other.  Taking these injuries out of the equation Cam will outlast CMC as an effective player at their respective positions, even if it means mostly eliminating the designed runs from Cam’s game. 

[jfra78]

First we shouldnt sign CMC to a second contarct. You dont build an offense around a RB anymore.  

Second, MVP caliber QBs dont grow on trees.  Its actually riskier to draft a QB and hope he can translate to the NFL, than to give Cam another chance and let him play out his contract here.  

[jfra78]

23 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

Okay, but this year we paid Cam 20 million and KK the 18 you say we can’t afford to pay CMC. The additional 10 million can easily be created by cutting dead weight non performing players along the way like..KK, or Trai Turner, or Paradis.

Don’t worry, it can be done without putting the team in cap hell. Tbh though, I’m not sure you’re asking the right question. I think the thing we maybe ought to be asking ourselves is whether it’s worth paying any back, even one as good as CMC, big money. It’s arguably the most fungible position in football and while CMC does have a unique skill set, some have made the argument that running backs just do not impact the game the way they once did, and matter little for anything but fantasy football.

I feel the only way to keep CMC past his rookie contract is to translate him to full time WR before his contract ends.  He has proven to be a great RB, but he can be a great WR and have a longer career.

[1of10Charnatives]

5 minutes ago, JawnyBlaze said:

For next year it would be fiscally irresponsible to get rid of Cam if he’s healthy. The return on investment would be greatly in our favor, $20mil for a franchise QB is a steal.

Going beyond this year, again assuming he’s healthy, you give QBs third contracts long before you give RBs third contracts. I’d think we could keep both, especially since there’s no reason to believe Cam wouldn’t take a team friendly deal again like he did last time. But if you have to choose, you choose the QB. 
 

Brees has shoulder surgery like 15 years ago and is still going pretty strong.  Luck came back strong after his shoulder surgery after a year.  Plenty of players have had lisfranc injuries and recovered completely. No reason to believe Cam can’t do the same, especially since the two injuries don’t affect each other.  Taking these injuries out of the equation Cam will outlast CMC as an effective player at their respective positions, even if it means mostly eliminating the designed runs from Cam’s game. 

The question is two fold: can Cam stay healthy once he gets that way now that he’s over 30, and since the only remotely prudent thing to do towards that end is eliminate the designed runs, can he be as effective as a pure pocket passer?

We can hope the answer to both is yes, but I think assuming both as givens  would be overly optimistic. If the answer to either is no, then it’s almost certain he wouldn’t be able to live up to his contract. I think it’s highly likely with his playing style and past injuries that the player that put the team on his shoulders is gone, never to return. I would rather be wrong than right about this, but what worries me is that the injury health question alone makes extending him a gamble at the most crucial position in the game, even if he comes back next year and balls out.

I also think it’s no given he would take a team friendly deal. Honestly if I were Cam, looking at the state of the team, I would want out. 

[1of10Charnatives]

10 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

I feel the only way to keep CMC past his rookie contract is to translate him to full time WR before his contract ends.  He has proven to be a great RB, but he can be a great WR and have a longer career.

This is an idea that makes a lot of sense to me. Question is, will CMC fo for it? Who knows.

[JawnyBlaze]

9 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

The question is two fold: can Cam stay healthy once he gets that way now that he’s over 30, and since the only remotely prudent thing to do towards that end is eliminate the designed runs, can he be as effective as a pure pocket passer?

We can hope the answer to both is yes, but I think assuming both as givens  would be overly optimistic. If the answer to either is no, then it’s almost certain he wouldn’t be able to live up to his contract. I think it’s highly likely with his playing style and past injuries that the player that put the team on his shoulders is gone, never to return. I would rather be wrong than right about this, but what worries me is that the injury health question alone makes extending him a gamble at the most crucial position in the game, even if he comes back next year and balls out.

I also think it’s no given he would take a team friendly deal. Honestly if I were Cam, looking at the state of the team, I would want out. 

Again, no reason to believe Cam won’t be healthy. I’ll never understand how two unrelated injuries and now all of a sudden he’s a broken man that’ll never be healthy again. One of the most durable QBs ever, especially considering what was asked of him. Two, Cam proved he wasn’t all about the money and not about trying to go somewhere to maximize his money or afraid of a challenge with his last deal. He makes plenty of money on the side with endorsements and other business ventures. And three, he proved he can be a VERY effective pocket passer without using much of his run game the first half of ‘18. 

[JawnyBlaze]

im not saying none of the questions are concerns at all, but I’m looking at them through the lens of proven history, not baseless speculation like a lot of people are. 

[WarHeel]

28 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

First we shouldnt sign CMC to a second contarct. You dont build an offense around a RB anymore.  

Second, MVP caliber QBs dont grow on trees.  Its actually riskier to draft a QB and hope he can translate to the NFL, than to give Cam another chance and let him play out his contract here.  

He’s also basically our #1 WR and carried our entire offense this year. The game is evolving once again so you could absolutely build around a guy like CMC. 

[Daddy_Uncle]

Lots of expert opinions on Cam around here. I'll just leave it to the people that are paid to make those decisions and not worry about it

[panthers55]

With the cap going up every year, we can afford whoever we want to sign. The biggest question is whether Cam is needed in this new offense. It isn't that he can't play in this offense so much as whether he can stay disciplined enough to stay in the offense scheme without trying to do everything on his own or doing his normal Superman role. This new offense will be built on the scheme not the QB. His job is get the ball out quick and let the players do the work. This offense is built on accurate passing anticipating where the receivers will be, not where they are. Things that Cam has struggled with since he came into the league. You can see that when Brees went down, Bridgewater jumped right in with little drop off. It was the system that worked not who was at quarterback. So the biggest question is whether we need to pay big bucks for Cam in this offense or can we save that money and use someone else who can get similar results at a cheaper price. That is what is being debated as much as whether Cam is healthy or not. Being an MVP in one system doesn't guarantee he will be an MVP is this new offense. 

[1of10Charnatives]

1 hour ago, JawnyBlaze said:

Again, no reason to believe Cam won’t be healthy. I’ll never understand how two unrelated injuries and now all of a sudden he’s a broken man that’ll never be healthy again. One of the most durable QBs ever, especially considering what was asked of him. Two, Cam proved he wasn’t all about the money and not about trying to go somewhere to maximize his money or afraid of a challenge with his last deal. He makes plenty of money on the side with endorsements and other business ventures. And three, he proved he can be a VERY effective pocket passer without using much of his run game the first half of ‘18. 

There’s very good reason to believe he may not be able to maintain his health. He’s had a nine year career; through the first six years he was indeed quite durable, but he has not been so for the last three, an entire third of his professional career, Moreover, since it’s well known that the body’s ability to recover from injury drops off from its peak once the age of 30 is reached, it is reasonable to assume that any professional athlete will recover more slowly and less completely from injury past 30 than they did before. This based upon a sample of literally thousands and is thus a pretty reasonable assumption.

im less concerned about Cam’s motivation to go elsewhere being about money than it being about career goals. The money aspect is in regards to how the organization must weigh its risks.

While I agree what we saw in the first half of 2018 looked promising and is probably one of the best reasons to believe Cam has the potential to be quite effective as a pure pocket passer, it’s still only half a season sample size and is largely before NFL defenses began to adjust to a Cam who runs less. Kyle Allen is a good example of how good something can look until NFL DC’s have a large enough collection of film to game plan effectively against it. I suspect that Cam paired with a flexible and innovative mind like Brady could be quite potent, but I fear there are too many factors working against Cam being here long term. But let’s cross our fingers because if he is at least back next season and healthy, it’s possible he and Brady could do things together that would force everyone to re-evaluate. I just think it’s imperative that whether we bring him back or move on, the line has to be improved.

[countryboi]

I think Cam at 30 is young enough to be included in the rebuild. QBs have a much longer life span than most other positions