“winning franchises win” says matt rhule (5-10 record)

[TLGPanthersFan]

Rhule is an deluded idiot. That is becoming more apparent. Watch this team be stuck at 7-9 to 9-7. I think he actually believes he can win a Super Bowl with sub-par talent. That is college coach thinking because you really have no control over who is on your team year to year. 
Rhule is going to ruin this franchise even more. 

[Porn Shop Clerk]

dan marino was one of the greatest qbs ever and didn't get poo done

[GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER]

3 minutes ago, NCBlu said:

So what was Carolina to do when the other team is throwing the ball to you ? Tell the guys to drop it? Tell your team if the other team fumbles dont try to pick it up? Washington was a bad team over all yesterday and the QB play was really bad, sometimes you are just the better team that day. Are you really shocked RR got out coahed? It didnt look like his guys where ready to go out and win the NFC East...

look you don’t have to convince me that rivera is a moron who doesn’t belong in the league. maybe a win against him and his team was unavoidable. but there was no reason to let a guy like burns on the field though. that’s a shortsighted move prioritizing a win in a guaranteed losing season over the future.

[Pup McBarky]

3 minutes ago, TLGPanthersFan said:

That is college coach thinking because you really have no control over who is on your team year to year. 

I don't think you understand. You mean, the coaches...who literally go out and recruit the players...have no control over their college rosters? Do you really want to have typed that?

[PhillyB]

it actually occurred to me i've never done any specific searches for opinion pieces on tanking strategy, and since i'm conflicted i did a quick google and found this:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2311552-why-nfl-teams-dont-tank-for-a-better-draft-position.amp.html

 

excellent summary imo - it boils down, beyond the culture-building issue, to being impossible to get enough people on board with it to accomplish it.

 

Here’s the problem with tanking in order to better your chances in the draft. To start, no coach or general manager would ever be able to effectively instruct a group of professional athletes to intentionally lose a game while still preserving his ability to ever teach the importance of winning, never giving up or giving your all. If a coach did encourage his players not to try or go all-out for a particular game, he would be heading down a slippery slope, one that potentially cannot be reversed.

A critical aspect of coaching is instilling good habits and a winning attitude into your players. If at any point in that process you introduce tanking, all of your previous teachings and emphasis will be permanently nullified.

One of the biggest risks they’d face would be setting a precedent that could poison the entire team.

To clarify, the nature of professional athletes tends to be dominated by a common thread. Nearly every single NFL player worth anything is fueled by an incredible competitive edge. This edge allows them to survive and thrive under the pressure-filled spotlight that is the NFL.

[PhillyB]

former panther geoff schwartz on the topic last year:

 

Tanking is a reality for the front office (the roster builders) of an NFL franchise and the media. It’s not for the coaches and players, who bring it every Sunday. The best part of our job is winning. Winning makes the entire building happy, and it’s what we attempt to achieve all week. So that’s why you never see coaches or players actively tanking in games.

Just look at last weekend.

The Giants and Washington both needed to lose for Chase Young. Both teams played uber-hard in this game. Daniel Jones and Saquon Barkley had career days, and the Giants won in overtime. Washington scored with almost no time on the clock to make the score 35-34. The team could have called a pass play on a two-point conversion and told Case Keenum to throw the ball out of the end zone, ensuring a loss. Nope. Washington kicked the PAT and it went to OT.

The Bengals, fighting for the No. 1 pick in the draft, were down to the Dolphins 35-12 in the fourth quarter. Just lose, Bengals, and get your pick. But nope, they kept playing hard and eventually lost in overtime to the Dolphins.

And the Dolphins, who were supposed to be tanking, will end up with the player they wanted anyway.

[PhillyB]

if geoff is to be believed this inquiry should be aimed at tepper, not rhule

[Sean Payton's Vicodin]

Panthers actually won a game (against the dumbest HC in the NFL) so all the TROO FANS are out in full force.

I still don't know why 5-11 is the threshold for WINNING CULTURE but 4-12 + top 3 draft pick isnt

[Jon Snow]

Just win baby.  That's all that matters.

[GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER]

12 minutes ago, PhillyB said:

it actually occurred to me i've never done any specific searches for opinion pieces on tanking strategy, and since i'm conflicted i did a quick google and found this:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2311552-why-nfl-teams-dont-tank-for-a-better-draft-position.amp.html

 

excellent summary imo - it boils down, beyond the culture-building issue, to being impossible to get enough people on board with it to accomplish it.

 

 

 

what coaches can do that benefits both draft position and roster construction is bench very good but injured players like burns and evaluate the replacements. rotate guys in more, reduce snap counts for starters, etc. burns should not have played yesterday. he was listed as questionable but it was thought up until noon yesterday that he would be out with an injury. it wasn’t controversial at all to see “shut mccaffrey down” on this forum without considering whether he would actually be ready to go at some point. there’s an inconsistency with some people here and there’s an inconsistency with the franchise if mccaffrey could have actually played in any of these games he has missed. would we have seen more of him if we were in playoff contention? and is he that much more important than a piece like burns? i would take burns over mccaffrey straight up tbh.

[GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER]

like one of the things about pro sports is if you’re uniquely weak at a position your opponent will find it and attack that weakness repeatedly. might take a quarter or so but even an idiot like ron rivera can figure it out over some time. you can absolutely lose games without a single player on the field purposefully playing below their standard.

[onmyown]

Sure a lot of emphasis on QB...I get it TB sucks. But, no, the roster is NOT fine, and it’s not a unique situation, there are holes everywhere...what are you talking about? You do realize the chances of making a playoff run with the defense and oline ranked as they are, compared to 20 years of football history, is like....less than 7%?

Nothing in the past 20 years of football suggest that even with a good QB we would compete, unless of course we start breaking records and become on of the 4-6 exceptions of 40 SB teams in 20 years, which by the way only happened on teams with HOF/GOAT qbs...

This isn’t madden the roster is not fine, you won’t plug in a rookie QB and have success especially with your entire oline except shitty Paradis gone next season, again the roster is not fine

No unique situation, you should really just accept this might actually be the same process as a shitty team, one who has averaged 7 wins over 4 years before Rhule even stepped inside the building with the most dead money in the NFL - that will take time to fix 

While I don’t agree about the unique situation I do agree there is absolutely no point beating the Washington team. Should’ve put in Grier. 

[PhillyB]

3 minutes ago, GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER said:

what coaches can do that benefits both draft position and roster construction is bench very good but injured players like burns and evaluate the replacements. rotate guys in more, reduce snap counts for starters, etc. burns should not have played yesterday. he was listed as questionable but it was thought up until noon yesterday that he would be out with an injury. it wasn’t controversial at all to see “shut mccaffrey down” on this forum without considering whether he would actually be ready to go at some point. there’s an inconsistency with some people here and there’s an inconsistency with the franchise if mccaffrey could have actually played in any of these games he has missed. would we have seen more of him if we were in playoff contention? and is he that much more important than a piece like burns? i would take burns over mccaffrey straight up tbh.

yeah i mean i agree with you completely in your evaluation and i sure as hell wish we'd lost but i think the key factor here is that coaches - who get fired all the time for not winning enough games - would have to deliberately reduce their chance of winning games in order to play the long game.

i imagine plenty of them of thought of this before - tanking - but the fact none of them ever do makes me think literally everyone's too worried about racking up Ws to give it pause outside of a team executive's direct order.

[ClawOn]

If the only great quarterbacks in the league were drafted top 4, this would be worth discussing.