Jump to content

  • Welcome!

    Register and log in easily with Twitter or Google accounts!

    Or simply create a new Huddle account. 

    Members receive fewer ads , access our dark theme, and the ability to join the discussion!

     

5 Carolina Panthers players facing an uphill battle at training camp

SBBlue

By SBBlue,
in Carolina Panthers

 Share

Recommended Posts

kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Scott12345 said:

I think Daley can be a player…if he can stay on the field

he was pretty good when healthy

I'm stealing this quote from someone(cannot recall who), "Availability is an ability." If you cannot stay healthy, it doesn't matter how good you are.

We have a LOT of guys on the roster that fit that description currently. Unfortunately, a lot of them are in that OL unit. 

  • Beer 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
AU-panther Mentor

AU-panther

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

IMO, it's that they believe in their ability to turn these guys into something they likely aren't. Let's be honest, rare are the stories of journeyman backup OL and busts that go from team to team in the NFL and then suddenly become above average players. Hence my general dislike for the Erving and Elflein signings. Had we signed them as backup OL, I'd have completely different feelings but IMO they were signed to start(or at least compete to start). 

I feel similarly about Christensen. He's a guy that looks great when you see his RAS but his film isn't exactly outstanding. To that point, our hopes of him becoming our future LT appear to have dimmed a little. Which, in fairness, the "news" coming from the organization leads us to believe they thought more highly of him as an OG anyway. 

I think they appear to place a very high value on athletic ability and raw potential. I believe that makes a lot of sense if you are a college coach but in the NFL everyone is a great athlete and has potential. That's my general theory on why we make some of the moves that we do(and did). 

But, perhaps they just have the special sauce like Pete Carroll did and can motivate these guys into being champions. We will see in the next few years.

I totally agree, I think this staff believes they can get more out of player than other coaches.  That's a risky gamble.  

I said it years ago after the Matt Kalil deal, and several times since.  Expecting a player to become something he hasn't recently proven to be is a losing proposition over time.  You might get lucky occasionally but overall you don't.  Its one thing if it is a one year cheap deal, but when start throwing serious money at it the risk/reward ration starts to work against you.  We lost that gamble with Kalil, we lost it with TB, im sure there have been others.  I'm worried about Erving, Elflien, and Darnold.

Also I think you are spot on with the assessment of them placing high value on measurables, which is somewhat different than Hurny, and we all use to complain about the Gaulden picks.  There is a difference between valuing measurables out of college and guys who have already struggled at the pro level.

Erving has some ideal measurables for LT, I'm just afraid we overpaid.  With Elflein i can see some of the thinking.  He had a decent rookie year, had some injuries, here again we just seem to overpay for reclamation projects.  Also i keep going back to the fact he was a pretty highly regarded center prospect coming out of college.  You always need a back up center on your team, also Paradis is in the last year of his deal.  There might be some other thinking there, here again bit of an expensive gamble, not saying I would have done it but I see the thinking.

I like Rhule, I think he has potential to be a really good head coach in the NFL, I think our drafting will be above average over time, but I'm not a big fan of most of our free agent moves.  Lets be honest, last years class was a failure, time will tell about this one.

 

 

 

  • Beer 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

I totally agree, I think this staff believes they can get more out of player than other coaches.  That's a risky gamble.  

They made their living doing exactly that in college. The problem is that this isn't college. And it's worth noting that their record against actual good (top 25) competition in college was abysmal. I think when I looked it up that the only two top 25 teams Rhule ever beat were ECU and Navy. Every other time he faced a top 25 team he lost.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

They made their living doing exactly that in college. The problem is that this isn't college. And it's worth noting that their record against actual good (top 25) competition in college was abysmal. I think when I looked it up that the only two top 25 teams Rhule ever beat were ECU and Navy. Every other time he faced a top 25 team he lost.

Yep and regardless of how much sand our fans like to place between their ears and these facts, they are going to exist until they prove these doubts wrong. 

Make no mistake, there are plenty of reasons to doubt the direction we are headed, the personnel we have to achieve it and the methods for achieving it.

We just have to hope these are the guys that prove all those doubts wrong. That's about all we can do.

  • Beer 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
AU-panther Mentor

AU-panther

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

They made their living doing exactly that in college. The problem is that this isn't college. And it's worth noting that their record against actual good (top 25) competition in college was abysmal. I think when I looked it up that the only two top 25 teams Rhule ever beat were ECU and Navy. Every other time he faced a top 25 team he lost.

 

You would expect a high school kid to continue to improve, especially with better coaching.  Once a player in in the pros for a few years you have a pretty good idea of what they are, usually.  Lets hope we get lucky with a few exceptions. 🙂

  • Pie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
SBBlue Veteran

SBBlue

Posted
  • Author
Posted
36 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

They made their living doing exactly that in college. The problem is that this isn't college. And it's worth noting that their record against actual good (top 25) competition in college was abysmal. I think when I looked it up that the only two top 25 teams Rhule ever beat were ECU and Navy. Every other time he faced a top 25 team he lost.

Temple beats Penn State for first time since 1941, ending 39-game winless streak
Temple broke the longest active losing streak in college football.

Temple beats Penn State for first time since 1941, ending 39-game winless streak - SBNation.com

  • Beer 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Sgt Schultz Grand Master

Sgt Schultz

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yep and regardless of how much sand our fans like to place between their ears and these facts, they are going to exist until they prove these doubts wrong. 

Make no mistake, there are plenty of reasons to doubt the direction we are headed, the personnel we have to achieve it and the methods for achieving it.

We just have to hope these are the guys that prove all those doubts wrong. That's about all we can do.

I am not worried about them being addicted to the "coach them up" philosophy yet.  15 months ago we had purged the roster of aging and overpaid talent where it made sense.  I think we will look aback and say it was where we tore things down completely. 

Now we are building from near ground level up.  We drafted some good defensive talent last year.  This year we added a CB,and added a few pieces on offense that are obviously still in front of the jury whether they work out or not.  One replaces a WR that we could have gone down the sink hole of overpaying.

Almost all of our FA signings have been short-term contracts.  That tells me they are on "prove it" deals that are long enough to allow us to find a replacement if needed.  Even TB was basically a "prove it" deal.  Whose idea it was to pay him $20M as opposed to $12M (if that would have gotten him) is not known for sure, but we have our suspicions.

I would be much more comfortable if we had drafted a marquee OL early.  Had the Lions not drafted Sewell, he would be in a Panther uniform.  I liked Slater apparently more than they did, but I guarantee you they have more analysis behind their decision than I have behind mine. 

It is a process.  Sooner or later we need to address the OL, though.  It just looks like a lot of the OL they had on the draft board were either taken before we picked or not worth the next pick we had.  Even if Christensen and Brown work out, we are not done there.

We went from "help needed, all positions, inquire within" to "help needed, most positions, inquire within" after last year.  I am just hoping that changes to "some positions" next year.  That would put us back on a par with a lot of teams after having purged the stench.  That, alone, would be a significant accomplishment in two years from where we started.  Especially given a "pause" in the salary cap growth.

  • Beer 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Moo Daeng Experienced

Moo Daeng

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

They made their living doing exactly that in college. The problem is that this isn't college. And it's worth noting that their record against actual good (top 25) competition in college was abysmal. I think when I looked it up that the only two top 25 teams Rhule ever beat were ECU and Navy. Every other time he faced a top 25 team he lost.

Baylor beat Oklahoma State who was ranked 25th in 2019.  Though non of this has much bearing on what he can or can't do leading an NFL team. 

The only people questioning Rhule's coaching potential are those who seek negativity in everything. People who actually know coaching are impressed by him.

Edited by Moo Daeng
Link to comment
Share on other sites
LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Moo Daeng said:

Baylor beat Oklahoma State who was ranked 25th in 2019.  Though non of this has much bearing on what he can or can't do leading an NFL team. 

The only people questioning Rhule's coaching potential are those who seek negativity in everything. People who actually know coaching are impressed by him.

Not sure which poll you're looking at. I'm seeing them ranked the previous week but dropping out of the rankings after losing their 2nd game of the year to an unranked Texas Tech prior to facing Baylor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
KatsAzz Grand Master

KatsAzz

Posted
Posted
On 7/5/2021 at 11:12 AM, SBBlue said:

As I'm thinking about it, Zylstra could very well beat out Kirkwood and Simon.  Man that WR room is crowded.

In my opinion, WR Brandon Zylstra will make the team but he could be placed on the practice squad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

Injuries on  oline is more of a rule, than an exception. 

To an extent that is true. We do have quite the collection of guys with pretty extensive injury histories. 

That's one thing that really can hurt, having little continuity in the OL. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • PMH4OWPW7JD2TDGWZKTOYL2T3E.jpg

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • tukafan21
      With the first pick, don't draft a QB? Draft a DE? C'mon!

      By tukafan21 · Posted

      Oh good lord Interest doesn't mean interest in making a bad trade to take the player, that's why I had such a long post, to accurately describe why those are two different things, but you don't like to listen to that stuff.  Being interested in a player doesn't live in a vacuum. It's very simple... there isn't a #1 draft pick type of grade on any of these QB's, if there was, we'd just take them.  You can't bluff a pick everyone knows you won't make, and trying to trade the pick is the CLEAR signal that you're not taking the QB. Just because the Raiders would have interest, doesn't mean they're going to bail us out of a situation we don't want to be in, they'd be smart about it and just sit put, let us take a non QB as we'd be telling the world we're not taking one just by trying to trade the pick, and then they'd take him at #2 (either with their own pick or by trading less to get that one). Oh, and your point of "if nobody is willing to make the trade, you obviously just take the best QB" is quite literally the dumbest thing I've ever read on here. If nobody is willing to trade up to take the QB, then it's OBVIOUS that the QB isn't worth taking with that pick, so OBVIOUSLY taking the best QB there is just OBVIOUSLY stupid and a bad pick. The moral of it is if there is a QB worth taking, we're taking them and not making the trade.  If there isn't a QB worth taking there, nobody is trading up to #1 to take one, we just showed the NFL how bad of an idea that is 2 years ago, it's really not hard to see. You keep making up this mythical situation where there is a QB who has shown to be worth trading up to #1 for and we'll be able to leverage that into a trade.  But we're the most QB needy team in the league, if we end up with the #1 pick, either we are taking a QB #1 or no QB is going #1 unless we get VERY lucky and two teams in the Top 5 fall in love with one prospect and we can play them off each other and fleece one of them. But again, I can't see that happening, as if there was a QB worthy of that, we're just taking him ourselves.
    • CamWhoaaCam
      With the first pick, don't draft a QB? Draft a DE? C'mon!

      By CamWhoaaCam · Posted

      Sanders is with Tom Brady brand and that's his mentor. The Raiders owner was with Sanders taking pics at a Vegas game together.   It doesn't take much to connect the dots that Vegas will be interested in Sanders as their franchise QB. Oh yeah and guess who hasa small ownership stake in the Raiders Tom Brady.   I guess this is just another made up Madden idea by me huh?
    • CamWhoaaCam
      With the first pick, don't draft a QB? Draft a DE? C'mon!

      By CamWhoaaCam · Posted

      Bro I don't mind debating you, but did you really have to write all that to get your point across.   This isn't Madden. If you have the #1 pick you literally control your own destiny. If nobody wants to trade which I have a hard time believing they won't then you obviously take the best QB.   I think we will have suitors. If that's Madden then so be it.
×
×
  • Create New...