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Starting OL Projection ...


Zod
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1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

I think only Paradis and Moton are guaranteed starters. Camp could end up causing any of the rest of the two deep to shuffle a bunch. IMO, there probably isn't much separation in the top 2(or 3) of the rest of the OL spots. TBD.

Even if our starters remain relatively static throughout the camp, I don't know if we will know exactly what that means for at least a few games of the season. I guess ideally even if they are subpar individually they can stay healthy and develop enough chemistry for the sum to be greater than the parts. That's the best case scenario.

Hard to say right now--we need to see what Indy and the Ravens do first--I will be watching. 

I hope we can go LT-Moton, LG-Daley  C-Paradis  RG-Miller and RT-Christensen--but they will be scored.

During the Presser today, Rhule talked about liking Cam in the Wide Zone--but he admits that they will determine who plays where when the grade film.

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2 hours ago, stbugs said:

I would leave WR off this list. Not saying you don’t re-sign DJ, but there have been a ton of talented WRs coming into the league every year now. It’s not even close on DT, OT, QB and CB. If Marshall pans out we would have been able to get rid of Samuel and then Anderson without any real hit. If Shi Smith looks good too, we may be better off.

Of all the positions you mentioned it just fees like college is producing way more good WRs than anything else.

You make a great point that a lot of people don’t understand.  People like to talk about importance but they forget about availability, you have to factor that together.

Maybe a WR factors into winning just as much as an OT, there are actually atlytics out there that supports that, but which is easier to find? 
 

The college game is opening up and because of such WRs seem to easier to find in the draft in recent history.  Not only that WRs seem to be contributing earlier in their career than other positions.   If anything OTs seem to be one of the slowest positions to develop once in the league.

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1 hour ago, raleigh-panther said:

The one position they knew they had to fill. they didn’t.  
 

Some would say QB is also in that category 

its mind boggling…not the fully new regime this year and not the combination of Rhule and Hurney last year   No point in talking about the wasteland of years in between since Gross 

Horn is a fine player, no question but again, two most important positions on the field are question marks.  

For modern Nfl teams those positions are the cornerstones  

move moton to the left and the right is weakened   Keep him at the right and that almost certainly means two TE sets or extra blocking in play formation or Darnold will be what he was in NY

fitterer and Rhule are paid to form a team,  

I guess we will see how patient Tepper really is

 

Premature ejaculation is treatable...

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1 hour ago, raleigh-panther said:

The one position they knew they had to fill. they didn’t.  
 

Some would say QB is also in that category 

its mind boggling…not the fully new regime this year and not the combination of Rhule and Hurney last year   No point in talking about the wasteland of years in between since Gross 

Horn is a fine player, no question but again, two most important positions on the field are question marks.  

For modern Nfl teams those positions are the cornerstones  

move moton to the left and the right is weakened   Keep him at the right and that almost certainly means two TE sets or extra blocking in play formation or Darnold will be what he was in NY

fitterer and Rhule are paid to form a team,  

I guess we will see how patient Tepper really is

 

What everyone forgets about Rhule and it's likely because he came from Baylor...he's a DEFENSIVE MINDED COACH, same as Rivera. The difference is he's open to modern data / analytics over Ron, and let's call it ''traditional gut instincts''. 

It's why the entire FIRST draft class, and the #1 pick for us at 8 was ALL DEFENSIVE players. Rhule wants to be able to STOP other teams, not just score with them. 

I've said this a few times, even after the Darnold trade, I'd have taken Fields, QB is FAR TOO IMPORTANT not to take the swings when they are available. WR depth / quality can be found on day 2, and 3, and money saved on a rookie deal at QB allows cap to sign a high end DB if you elect not to draft one. 

QB / Pass Pro / Pass Rush -- are the most important things in that order this day and age. 

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8 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Hard to say right now--we need to see what Indy and the Ravens do first--I will be watching. 

I hope we can go LT-Moton, LG-Daley  C-Paradis  RG-Miller and RT-Christensen--but they will be scored.

During the Presser today, Rhule talked about liking Cam in the Wide Zone--but he admits that they will determine who plays where when the grade film.

I still suspect we will be seeing Cam Erving at LT. IMO, the time Moton sees at LT is more about filling in when Erving inevitably gets banged up. We will see though. I think all of us would love to see Moton morph into our franchise LT. Something we have all wanted forever.

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I projected Daley as the LG starter bc he is a REALLY good player, and he has shown it when he has been healthy...  but, staying healthy has been the problem.  I'm not sure if Elflein has experience at RG, but I'd try to play him there, as I think that's the most talented combo at guard.  Moton on the left, BC on the right, and Paradis at center.  At least, that's how I hope it turns out.

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3 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

I projected Daley as the LG starter bc he is a REALLY good player, and he has shown it when he has been healthy...  but, staying healthy has been the problem.  I'm not sure if Elflein has experience at RG, but I'd try to play him there, as I think that's the most talented combo at guard.  Moton on the left, BC on the right, and Paradis at center.  At least, that's how I hope it turns out.

Really good player?? That seems like a pretty big stretch. Have we really even seen enough of him healthy to say that?

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I’ve been saying this since free agency, the contracts tell you this.  
This gives you an idea of what the coaches think going into camp, a starting point so to speak.  Now it’s up to the players to see who moves in and out of the starting lineup.

 

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6 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Really good player?? That seems like a pretty big stretch. Have we really even seen enough of him healthy to say that?

I didnt think I was alone in that assessment from what we saw from him his first two years when he filled in.  IIRC, he started both LT and LG and did really well, and I think I looked up his PFF grade last season and it stacked up well against the other guys we had...  he looked impressive and at the very least was able to hold his own, he just couldn't stay healthy.

But, I wouldn't be mad if Moore really blows everyone away and becomes Norwell 2.0 either, but I haven't heard much about him from camp so far.

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9 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Really good player?? That seems like a pretty big stretch. Have we really even seen enough of him healthy to say that?

I'm trying to understand where this belief that Daley is a "really good" player came from when he graded out nearly the same as Chris Reed (who was terrible) and is rarely available.

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2 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

I’ve been saying this since free agency, the contracts tell you this.  
This gives you an idea of what the coaches think going into camp, a starting point so to speak.  Now it’s up to the players to see who moves in and out of the starting lineup.

 

It will be disappointing if our younger players can't get past those guys, honestly. I think we all hoped that someone like Daley, Brown, Moore, or Christensen would step up and win at least one of those spots. If Erving and Elflein end up starting, I just can't envision that being an overall net positive. Their ceiling is basically average NFL OL and that is a bit of a stretch. 

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2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

It will be disappointing if our younger players can't get past those guys, honestly. I think we all hoped that someone like Daley, Brown, Moore, or Christensen would step up and win at least one of those spots. If Erving and Elflein end up starting, I just can't envision that being an overall net positive. Their ceiling is basically average NFL OL and that is a bit of a stretch. 

Might be disappointing but not surprising.  I think a lot of people around here severely underestimate how much rookie lineman struggle, even 1st round ones, let alone where we drafted guys.

I’ll be disappointed if one of the 3 rookies doesn’t start next year, anything this year will be a pleasant and welcome surprise.

 

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7 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

I didnt think I was alone in that assessment from what we saw from him his first two years when he filled in.  IIRC, he started both LT and LG and did really well, and I think I looked up his PFF grade last season and it stacked up well against the other guys we had...  he looked impressive and at the very least was able to hold his own, he just couldn't stay healthy.

But, I wouldn't be mad if Moore really blows everyone away and becomes Norwell 2.0 either, but I haven't heard much about him from camp so far.

That's kind of what I mean. Yes he was more impressive than what we had but that was a really low bar to hit. IIRC, he was a bit of a mixed bag with more good than bad. 

Had he been able to get a bunch of game reps, perhaps he is a guy that is a starter for us now. But, that wasn't the way it went unfortunately.

With the limited reps, I can say he had potential but I wouldn't stretch it to say he was very good. 

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1 minute ago, AU-panther said:

Might be disappointing but not surprising.  I think a lot of people around here severely underestimate how much rookie lineman struggle, even 1st round ones, let alone where we drafted guys.

I’ll be disappointed if one of the 3 rookies doesn’t start next year, anything this year will be a pleasant and welcome surprise.

 

The big disappointments would more so be Little(already locked in) and Christensen, I suppose. Really, we shouldn't expect the world out of late rounds picks and UDFA's like Brown, Moore and Daley. If you hit on one of every 10 of those guys, you are doing pretty well.

Eventually we are going to actually need to invest some draft picks on that OL. All these overpaid, backup journeyman just aren't going to cut it long term.

I never thought I would look at this year's(prospective) starting OL and be less enthusiastic than last year. What a mess.

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