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Next Gen Stats - How bad it really was


Zod
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@NextGenStats: The Eagles pressured Sam Darnold on 19 of his 40 dropbacks (47.5%), allowing just 5 completions on 16 attempts under pressure (2 INT).

Four different Eagles pass rushers generated 6+ pressures, the second team to do so over the last four seasons.

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The only offensive line in Panthers history that I can remember being worse, is 2014.  

Isn't that crazy though?  For as bad as this OL is, I STILL don't think it is half as bad as the one that year.  At least until Norwell and Turner started later in the season.  

The line the majority of the season IIRC

Byron Bell

Amini Silatolu

Ryan Kalil

Fernando Velasco

Nate Chandler

Now the question is does this team have any Norwell/Turner's they can insert into the line-up late in the season?  I'd say our only hope is Deonte Brown.  Play Moton/Brady at the tackles spot, hope Brown works out at guard, allows us to move Erving to the other guard position.  That leaves Paradis but not much we can do about that.  

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15 minutes ago, Zod said:

@NextGenStats: The Eagles pressured Sam Darnold on 19 of his 40 dropbacks (47.5%), allowing just 5 completions on 16 attempts under pressure (2 INT).

Four different Eagles pass rushers generated 6+ pressures, the second team to do so over the last four seasons.

Yea I posted this in another thread. Also posted this in another thread: "The Panthers always give teams their history and generate super stats for otherwise poo teams/players"

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It's all on the interior.  If you can't anchor, your whole line looks bad.  Tackles can't do their job because a lot of their technique revolves around ushering the edge player upfield past the QB, or to a point where the QB can simply step up.  Whole thing breaks down when the pressure is up the gut.

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3 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

And people gave me grief for being upset we took Marshall in the 2nd over a quality OL, even after I made it clear my problem wasn't with Marshall but with continuing to ignore the OL til later rounds. Let's take a quick poll, who would trade Marshall right now for a quality interior lineman?

Yeah, I thought I understood the pick. I thought it was made with the intention of allowing us to let Anderson walk after this season and net us a nice comp pick in return while replacing Anderson with a guy in a cheap rookie contract. But then we extended Anderson and he disappeared so now I don't know WTF the plan was/is.

If we were planning to extend Anderson all along WR probably shouldn't have even been on the board in the 1st or 2nd rounds. Hell, maybe not even the 3rd unless some insane value was there.

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1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Yeah, I thought I understood the pick. I thought it was made with the intention of allowing us to let Anderson walk after this season and net us a nice comp pick in return while replacing Anderson with a guy in a cheap rookie contract. But then we extended Anderson and he disappeared so now I don't know WTF the plan was/is.

In todays NFL and in the era that these kids are coming up playing 7 on 7s and year round football, wide receivers are a dime a dozen, much like running backs.  Premier lineman.........not so much. 

 

I like just about everything Fitt and co has done since he got here but failing to address the offensive line is down right retarded. 

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2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Yeah, I thought I understood the pick. I thought it was made with the intention of allowing us to let Anderson walk after this season and net us a nice comp pick in return while replacing Anderson with a guy in a cheap rookie contract. But then we extended Anderson and he disappeared so now I don't know WTF the plan was/is.

If we were planning to extend Anderson all along WR probably shouldn't have even been on the board in the 1st or 2nd rounds. Hell, maybe not even the 3rd unless some insane value was there.

The Anderson extension is looking real bad. Maybe close to Hurney level move especially since it has been clear that DJ Moore is the better player and there has never been anything closet o a debate about that.

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1 minute ago, mrcompletely11 said:

In todays NFL and in the era that these kids are coming up playing 7 on 7s and year round football, wide receivers are a dime a dozen, much like running backs.  Premier lineman.........not so much. 

 

I like just about everything Fitt and co has done since he got here but failing to address the offensive line is down right retarded. 

A starter for KC was grabbed in the 6th too when he was one people were saying to grab in the 3rd and then 4th while in draft chat.

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Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

Yeah, I thought I understood the pick. I thought it was made with the intention of allowing us to let Anderson walk after this season and net us a nice comp pick in return while replacing Anderson with a guy in a cheap rookie contract. But then we extended Anderson and he disappeared so now I don't know WTF the plan was/is.

Here's the problem not getting OL help sticks us with:

We still don't know if Darnold is worth keeping. Yes yesterday was bad, but as this thread title makes abundantly clear, it's easy to be bad when you're constantly in fear of getting killed. Those stats are absurb. Our line is absurdly bad, and it's not like that wasn't obvious in the offseason. There is really no justification whatsoever for taking a WR in the 2nd when it was already one of your stronger position groups without even accounting for how good a receiver CMC is out of the backfield while continuing to ignore an obviously awful OL as you bring in a young but unproven QB from a bad franchise.

The tactic you described of drafting Marshall to let Anderson walk? That's the kind of luxury move teams that aren't horribly shorthanded at critical position groups get to make with day 1 picks, not teams looking at starting the football version of the Washington Generals plus one good RT should even be considering.

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3 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

Here's the problem not getting OL help sticks us with:

We still don't know if Darnold is worth keeping. Yes yesterday was bad, but as this thread title makes abundantly clear, it's easy to be bad when you're constantly in fear of getting killed. Those stats are absurb. Our line is absurdly bad, and it's not like that wasn't obvious in the offseason. There is really no justification whatsoever for taking a WR in the 2nd when it was already one of your stronger position groups without even accounting for how good a receiver CMC is out of the backfield while continuing to ignore an obviously awful OL as you bring in a young but unproven QB from a bad franchise.

The tactic you described of drafting Marshall to let Anderson walk? That's the kind of luxury move teams that aren't horribly shorthanded at critical position groups get to make with day 1 picks, not teams looking at starting the football version of the Washington Generals plus one good RT should even be considering.

If I am reading that stat correctly, every other pass attempt someone was pressuring Darnold.  Thats absurd and I dont put yesterday all on Sam. 

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    • The referee assigned to this game is Shawn Smith. This is a critical data point for betting purposes because his crew has one of the most distinct, long-term statistical biases in the NFL. "Road Team" Bias: Historically, Shawn Smith is known as the "Road Team Referee." In a league where home teams usually win ~55% of the time, home teams in Smith's games have historically won at a rate far below league average (often hovering around 40-42%). Against The Spread (ATS): The trend is even starker here. Home teams have covered the spread at a rate of roughly 37-40% in his career. The Mechanism: Analysis shows his crew tends to call a higher rate of False Start and Unnecessary Roughness penalties on the Home Team. This negates the traditional home-field advantage (crowd noise causing false starts for the visitors). Impact on This Game: This specific assignment heavily favors the Buccaneers (Road Team). If you believe the referee influences the game, Smith's presence suggests the Panthers will struggle to get "home cooking" calls and may face untimely procedural flags that stall drives. The Panthers have only had Shawn Smith officiate four home games since he became a head referee in 2018, and they are all losses. Date Opponent Result Score Nov 24, 2024 vs. Kansas City Chiefs Loss 27–30 Oct 9, 2022 vs. San Francisco 49ers Loss 15–37 Dec 12, 2021 vs. Atlanta Falcons Loss 21–29 Nov 25, 2018 vs. Seattle Seahawks Loss 27–30 Considering the how rare it is for Shawn Smith to officiate a Panthers game at all, this seems like an odd time to assign him to a Panthers game, unless the NFL wants to kill the Panthers season once and for all.  The Panthers' offensive line situation creates a "perfect storm" for referee Shawn Smith's specific tendency to call False Starts on the home team. The "Carousel" Factor (Communication Vulnerability) The most damning stat for the Panthers' offensive line in 2025 is their lack of continuity. The Stat: By Week 13, the Panthers had already fielded their 10th different offensive line combination. The Impact: False starts are often "communication penalties"—they happen when a guard doesn't hear the center's snap count or a tackle anticipates the wrong cadence. A unit that hasn't played together struggles with non-verbal communication. The Shawn Smith Multiplier: Shawn Smith’s crew calls False Starts at a high rate on home teams. He will likely look for flinches on the exterior of the line. A disjointed line that is constantly rotating players (due to the injuries of starters like Cade Mays and the illness issues with Robert Hunt earlier this season) is "fresh meat" for this specific referee bias. The Specific Culprits (2025 Penalties) Ikem Ekwonu (LT): Leads the team with 4 False Start penalties this season. He is the most frequent violator on the line. Taylor Moton (RT): Has been flagged for 3 False Starts. The Trap: Smith’s crew often focuses on the tackles (the players furthest from the ball) jumping early to get an edge on speed rushers. Since Ekwonu struggles with this discipline naturally, having a referee who hunts for it is a massive disadvantage. The "Managed Outcome" Synthesis The "Bucs Cover" Script: If the desired outcome is a Buccaneers win to solidify their playoff standing, the officials simply have to apply the letter of the law. Calling strict False Starts on a confused, banged-up Panthers O-line will consistently put them in "3rd and Long" situations, killing their drives and allowing the Bucs (-3.5) to cover easily. The "Close Game" Script: If the desired outcome is "Week 18 Drama" (keeping the division tied), look for the officials to ignore the Panthers' twitchy tackles. If Ekwonu jumps a split-second early and no flag is thrown, it effectively neutralizes the Bucs' pass rush, allowing the Panthers to keep the score close. Summary of the Edge Vulnerability: Extreme. The Panthers are playing backup interior linemen (like Jake Curhan or practice squad call-ups) next to jumpy tackles. Betting Implication: This strongly reinforces the Bucs -3 or -3.5 play. The combination of a "Road Team Referee" and a "Home Team O-Line in chaos" suggests the Panthers will beat themselves with procedural penalties. Based on the collision of the hard data (Referee bias + Offensive Line injuries) and the soft narratives ("Managed Outcomes"), here is the definitive recommendation. If you have to place a single Moneyline bet to win this game straight up: The Pick: Tampa Bay Buccaneers (-165) While the "Entertainment Script" hints at a Panthers upset to keep the division messy, the structural disadvantage the Panthers face in this specific matchup is too massive to ignore. Here is why the Buccaneers are the stong moneyline play: 1. The "Shawn Smith" Road-Field Advantage This is the decisive factor. In the NFL, Home Field Advantage usually accounts for about 1.5 to 2 points of value. The Reality: Referee Shawn Smith negates that advantage entirely. His crew calls penalties in a way that historically suppresses home crowd momentum (False Starts, holding). The Result: You are essentially getting the Buccaneers on a neutral field (or even a "pseudo-home" field) against a team with a worse roster. 2. The "Drive-Killer" Synergy To win as an underdog, the Panthers need to play a clean, mistake-free game to keep drives alive. The combination of Panthers' 10th O-Line combo + Jump-prone Tackles (Ekwonu) + A Referee who hunts False Starts is a recipe for disaster. The Scenario: Expect the Panthers to face multiple "1st and 15" or "3rd and 12" situations due to procedural flags. 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    • He isn't a good HC. I think he has proved that conclusively.
    • The missed tackle percentage is on that screen cap.
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