So does PJ start next week? Does anyone even care?

[Tinamedina]

1 hour ago, mav1234 said:

Heineke was only on a roster last year because of tons of injuries and he knew the offense. It wasn't like he was carefully developed.  He made the most of the opportunities he got last year and that's why he's playing now.  Sometimes backups have that happen.   

I have no dislike of the XFL.  I legitimately have no problem with PJ. He's just not very good unfortunately, or at least hasn't been to date. Maybe that'll change some day... 

 

it doesn't matter how heineke got there, hes there now. you and a lot of nfl fans have this puritan status quo mentality that says, a qb has to have this college background, and drafted this high or hes no good. that mentality no longer works in todays nfl. there are several situations similar to this that have people wondering if the first round pick even matters anymore. i dont think it does. 

[Darvinsun]

On 11/28/2021 at 3:18 PM, glenwo2 said:

Of course it was 'cause Cam can do no wrong.  lol

 

 

I don't  think anyone has said Cam can do no wrong. Cam came off the couch and has had no time really to learn the offense  or no real time with the line or the wrs. He was bound to have a bad game. I wasn't  thinking this bad but I knew it was coming. This needs to play out. He deserves a chance to see if he can be aa starter. You brought him in half season gone and bc he didn't  play well you stop him from starting. If he was the sole reason why u lost I could entertain it but he wasn't.  You made him the starter for the rest of the season the moment you brought him back. You have to ride this out.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Darvinsun

[Darvinsun]

On 11/28/2021 at 10:25 PM, Tinamedina said:

 

yall said that about taylor heineke. they both were in the XFL, same career, difference is washington allowed heineke to develop, allowed him to make mistakes and learn from them. and pj walker is the better player out of him and heineke. the panthers have not developed a qb since cam newton. they need to pull a washington, but they are not using common sense, they are just reaching and panicking.

They didn't  developed Cam either. That is why his career is shot.

[Darvinsun]

On 11/28/2021 at 10:41 PM, Tinamedina said:

 

pj got down the field alot smoother. the offense runs smoother as well. yeah, thats what i said.

Of course it runs smoother . Cam is coming off the street. Pj has been here . The players are familiar with him.

[CRA]

14 hours ago, Catsfan69 said:

Did you not see what Taylor did last year in the playoff game? The 2nd half against us?

This year against us?

The throws he was making against Seattle. 

He's head and shoulders better than PJ

 

You put Heiniche with a bad OC, a horrible OL, and throw him out in games down two scores.....it's gonna be real ugly too. 

it's all the extreme game I don't buy into.  Jackson is now a top 5 DB.  Sam a possible MVP.  Extend Cam after Washington, retire him the next week. 

Heiniche and PJ largely have been the same tier QBs.  Heiniche just in a good spot and getting opportunity.  Maybe he will keep developing.  I'm rooting for him. 

I judge PJ on his two starts.  If you watered him, gave him some sun and took care of him he might could grow too.  Might not.  But people are way too hard on a backup QB who has won his 2 starts in the NFL. 

[Carl Spackler]

PJ has 1 TD pass and 7 INTs.

[mav1234]

5 hours ago, Tinamedina said:

 

it doesn't matter how heineke got there, hes there now. you and a lot of nfl fans have this puritan status quo mentality that says, a qb has to have this college background, and drafted this high or hes no good. that mentality no longer works in todays nfl. there are several situations similar to this that have people wondering if the first round pick even matters anymore. i dont think it does. 

I don't know why you think I need a QB to be drafted high or even at all.  That isn't the case at all. I've been huge fans of the various undrafted or low round QBs we've had come through as backs turned starters.

 On the other hand, it does seem high first round draft pick QBs are the most reliable way to find a franchise leader. 

 

[Carl Spackler]

1 minute ago, mav1234 said:

I don't know why you think I need a QB to be drafted high or even at all.  That isn't the case at all. I've been huge fans of the various undrafted or low round QBs we've had come through as backs turned starters.

 On the other hand, it does seem high first round draft pick QBs are the most reliable way to find a franchise leader. 

 

Don't waste your time. It's the PJ stan's alt. Just like Rhule can't be saved as a coach, some of these poeple can't be saved with logic.

[mav1234]

39 minutes ago, CRA said:

You put Heiniche with a bad OC, a horrible OL, and throw him out in games down two scores.....it's gonna be real ugly too. 

it's all the extreme game I don't buy into.  Jackson is now a top 5 DB.  Sam a possible MVP.  Extend Cam after Washington, retire him the next week. 

Heiniche and PJ largely have been the same tier QBs.  Heiniche just in a good spot and getting opportunity.  Maybe he will keep developing.  I'm rooting for him. 

I judge PJ on his two starts.  If you watered him, gave him some sun and took care of him he might could grow too.  Might not.  But people are way too hard on a backup QB who has won his 2 starts in the NFL. 

I agree with everything you're saying but I don't think we can bank on PJ being anything.  Not saying cut him etc... He's the best option at backup atm. I don't blame him (hell, or Darnold) for not being better, I blame the coaches. 

That doesn't make PJ better than particular other players like heineke right this second tho.  Frankly I hope a new offensive staff can come in and evaluate all our QBs in the offseason.  Maybe they can make something of PJ as a backup who knows.

Edited December 2, 2021 by mav1234

[Waldo]

Heiniche is not the most durable QB. People acting like he will take WTF to a SB is kind of funny, maybe back in the 80s.

Injury History

Date	League	Injury	Details
Jul 19, 2016	Non-NFL	Pedal Ankle Fracture	Heinicke tore his left ankle in mid-July 2016.
Aug 31, 2017	NFL	Head Cranial Concussion Grade 2	Heinicke suffered a concussion in the preseason finale against the Miami Dolphins and was placed on IR
Dec 23, 2018	NFL	Arm Elbow Sprain	Heinicke suffered a left elbow injury during Carolina's Week 16 loss to the Falcons. He was placed on IR
Jan 9, 2021	NFL	Shoulder A/C Joint Sprain	Heinicke suffered an AC joint sprain during the wild-card loss to the Buccaneers. Nothing was too serious as he was able to finish the game

 

He is having a great year for him, still 16 TDs to 10 INTs in his 4th year is hardly anything to put on a pedestal. 

PJ is more fun to watch than some of the guys in his tier but I have little belief he can win or win constantly. If he played 4 games in a row things would get real ugly with the film being out there. 

Then again, it doesn't take much film to predict this offense at this point. It's a place for talent to go and die, not thrive. 

Edit: LOL he is 28. Just lol. 

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Waldo

[Darvinsun]

On 12/1/2021 at 2:27 AM, Tinamedina said:

 

and yall said that about taylor heineke. everything yall say about pj can easily be applied to taylor heineke. difference is, rivera allowed heineke to develop, make his mistakes and learn. rivera never put heineke in at the last minute and force him to play hero ball. and they both played for the XFL, not for nothing. and now, heineke is going to the playoffs. and before you say heineke is better than pj, he's not. pj has a much stronger arm. this organization is impatient, and they don't want to 

Ron. He should be a college headcoach. When you come to the Nfl you should be good. I don't consider developing a qb in the NFL. Qbs have to adjust. I wouldn't want a qb that I would have to develope bc it seems that you would loose ground.  If you need to develop then you need to have a good veteran in place. Most teams don't.  The qb needs to be able to adjust or be special enough to still be able to win learning on the fly. Thing about that though most are not going to change much. The saying if it ain't  broke don't fix it , comes to mind.

Ron will not sniff another SB bc he doesn't  want greatness. He proved it when he was here. Just look how teams would come back and beat us. He is a poor man's Arians!

[Darvinsun]

5 hours ago, Tinamedina said:

 

it doesn't matter how heineke got there, hes there now. you and a lot of nfl fans have this puritan status quo mentality that says, a qb has to have this college background, and drafted this high or hes no good. that mentality no longer works in todays nfl. there are several situations similar to this that have people wondering if the first round pick even matters anymore. i dont think it does. 

It's not so much as draft position Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers proved that.. I think it goes into work ethic and what you produced on the field. What type of offense you played in and arm strength. The team you go to has to match your skill set. Coaching plays a big part in getting young QBs adjusted to the NFL life.

[CRA]

1 hour ago, mav1234 said:

I agree with everything you're saying but I don't think we can bank on PJ being anything.  Not saying cut him etc... He's the best option at backup atm. I don't blame him (hell, or Darnold) for not being better, I blame the coaches. 

That doesn't make PJ better than particular other players like heineke right this second tho.  Frankly I hope a new offensive staff can come in and evaluate all our QBs in the offseason.  Maybe they can make something of PJ as a backup who knows.

I have never advocated banking anything on PJ.  I mean I joke about him not losing.   But he is just a backup QB.  And in his two starts he frankly has done his job pretty well.   

people bitch about PJ so hard because we have done such a pathetic job in front of PJ.   

 

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

18 hours ago, Tinamedina said:

 

a win is a win. and he clearly is a prime example of people not properly evaluating qbs. cause he was cut in favor of other guys and where are they? exactly.

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth in this thread and not making any sense.  You know the Rivera/Hurney juggernaut cut Heinicke from the Panthers in 2019 right?  That should make them bad at evaluating QBs according to your own criteria.  Yet you're praising them and saying they should be emulated for "developing" him in ways we haven't developed PJ Walker, even though Walker has been on the Panthers roughly twice as long as Heinicke has been with WFT.  As others have pointed out Heinicke was on the bench behind Ryan Fitzpatrick to start the season anyway.  If everything had gone to plan he would have never seen the field. 

If this is such a winning formula we should just sign random FA quarterbacks and "develop" them I suppose.  Why would this apply to PJ Walker and not, oh I don't know, Will Grier or some other rando?  poo what's Tony Pike been up to?

The Patriots cut Heinicke too and I'd wager they're kind of okay at evaluating QBs.  Bet Heinicke would have cost less draft capital and been on a cheaper contract than first round pick Mac Jones.