#1 Most Accurate Mock Drafter says our QB interest is a smokescreen, we will go Evan Neal or Ikcy

[top dawg]

On 4/8/2022 at 5:49 PM, thunderraiden said:

https://underdognetwork.com/football/2022-nfl-mock-draft-josh-norris-v1
 

i'm assuming Icky is 1A to Evan Neals 1B. But he was one of the few that had us going Horn last year and he also had the most correct picks. His reasoning is pretty sound, just a year ago we passed on QBs just to go QB no matter what a year later? It wouldn't make any sense at all, we've already established we care too much about value to pull the trigger on an Andy Dolton rehash if we had our top of the board player available to us.

I get the reasoning, and I think that it's sound. The only thing is that I'm thinking Sewell was our "top of the board player" last season. Horn was perhaps a strong consolation. The question is who is the "strong consolation"--or A strong consolation--this year because I believe they may be gone. No one's gonna "surprise" us this year and take our top pick right before us...he (and maybe even the strong consolation) will be gone!

[top dawg]

Ekwonu's nickname was apparently given to him because some coach thought he favored Ickey Woods. 

LOL

[onmyown]

On 4/8/2022 at 3:49 PM, thunderraiden said:

https://underdognetwork.com/football/2022-nfl-mock-draft-josh-norris-v1
 

i'm assuming Icky is 1A to Evan Neals 1B. But he was one of the few that had us going Horn last year and he also had the most correct picks. His reasoning is pretty sound, just a year ago we passed on QBs just to go QB no matter what a year later? It wouldn't make any sense at all, we've already established we care too much about value to pull the trigger on an Andy Dolton rehash if we had our top of the board player available to us.

I mean it makes sense and is the smart play, but the same reason they passed on a QB just to do it the year after also makes sense for perennial losing teams, so you have to factor in stupidity. The fallacy in this reasonable article here is things trying to make logical sense of things. If they cared too much they’d wouldn't have signed TB and gutted a draft for Darnold.

Never underestimate stupidity with Rhule and Tep in the room.

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, top dawg said:

I could see a player, but I don't see them trading next year's first. The ONLY way I see that is if they feel strongly that one of these QBs is a legit franchise QB. I think Fitterer understands and appreciates the value of first round picks too much to trade them willy-nilly or the ability that said pick gives him the ability to maneuver and finesse (if you understand what I'm saying). Now next year's 2nd or beyond... hopefully they've learned something from this year...

I am not sure that what he did last draft and season wouldn't be considered "willy-nilly."

I know the board likes Fitt because of his aggressive trading but we have really yet to see that produce any meaningful results. So, I would be rather skeptical of his trade prowess until we see those results.

[Icege]

20 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I am not sure that what he did last draft and season wouldn't be considered "willy-nilly."

I know the board likes Fitt because of his aggressive trading but we have really yet to see that produce any meaningful results. So, I would be rather skeptical of his trade prowess until we see those results.

I do like the strategic approach of accumulating mid-to-late round picks in order to increase their chances of getting a sleeper on a dirt cheap rookie deal, especially if the board is showing that there is still equal value however many picks later.

Whether or not the current scouting department accurately identifies those players and current coaches properly develop them though is for sure a valid concern

[Matthias]

Give me Cross first, if he's gone, give me Neal.

[kungfoodude]

17 minutes ago, Icege said:

I do like the strategic approach of accumulating mid-to-late round picks in order to increase their chances of getting a sleeper on a dirt cheap rookie deal, especially if the board is showing that there is still equal value however many picks later.

Whether or not the current scouting department accurately identifies those players and current coaches properly develop them though is for sure a valid concern

Mid-to-late round picks are fine to accumulate but not when you fail to draft well in the 1st-3rd round. That's just basically gambling on low probability chances in the hopes to hit on longshots. 

I suppose if you can predict success at a savant level, that would make sense. Otherwise, you are just doing it for nothing. The draft last year definitely indicated the latter and not the former.

Hence why I don't just give Fitt a pass on being good yet. 

[SOJA]

Here's what we KNOW:

We know we don't have a second or third rounder

We know that Fitterer loves to trade down

We know that a team would be MOST likely to trade up for is a QB

 

My guess is Fitt wants a LT, if Icky or Neal are there they are the pick. However, he might view Penning/Cross on an equal but slightly lesser tier. So he's playing up this QB thing so that maybe someone trades up, we get an additional second or third rounder and still someone steal Cross.

[Icege]

47 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Mid-to-late round picks are fine to accumulate but not when you fail to draft well in the 1st-3rd round. That's just basically gambling on low probability chances in the hopes to hit on longshots. 

I suppose if you can predict success at a savant level, that would make sense. Otherwise, you are just doing it for nothing. The draft last year definitely indicated the latter and not the former.

Hence why I don't just give Fitt a pass on being good yet. 

I'm feeling fairly confident about how Jaycee, TMJ, Christensen, and Tremble all develop but I am concerned that the latter three were drafted for an offense that is no longer here. Hopefully they can adapt to McAdoo's system.

The TMJ pick is the one that bothers me the most in terms of how it will play out for the team. I liked the pick when it was made and still think he'll be a good player, but the allure was that he would know Brady's system and work his way in quickly. That ended up not happening, and Brady is no longer here.

However, looking at everything that went down regarding when TMJ was selected... I'm fairly impressed.

• Traded 39th (2nd) and 151st (5th) for the Chicago's 52nd (2nd), 83rd (3rd), and 204th (6th) overall selections. Chicago's pick at #39: Teven Jenkins, OT, Oklahoma St.
• Traded 52nd (2nd) and 113th (4th) for Cleveland's 59th (2nd) and 89th (3rd) overall selections. Cleveland's selection at #52: Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah, LB, Notre Dame.
• Panthers select at #59: Terrace Marshall Jr, WR, LSU.
• Panthers select at #83: Tommy Tremble, TE, Notre Dame.
• Traded 89th (3rd) for Houston's 109th (4th), 158th (5th), and their 2022 4th Rd selections. Houston's selection at #89: Nico Collins, WR, Michigan
• Traded 109th (4th) for Tennessee's 126th (4th), 166th (5th), and 232nd (7th) overall selections. Tennessee's selection: Dez Fitzpatrick, WR, Louisville
• Panthers select at #126: Chuba Hubbard, RB, Oklahoma St
• Panthers select at #158: Daviyon Nixon, DT, Iowa
• Panthers select at #166: Keith Taylor, CB, Washington
• Panthers select at #204: Shi Smith, WR, South Carolina
• Panthers select at #232: Phil Hoskins, DT, Kentucky

The Panthers opted to make a move that meant losing out on one of the following players: Teven Jenkins, Richie Grant, Levi Onwuzurike, Liam Eichenberg, Trevon Moehrig, Kelvin Joseph, Walker Little, Jackson Carman, Asante Samuel Jr, Aaron Banks, Rondale Moore, Azeez Ojulari, Sam Cosmi, Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah, Dillon Radunz, Dayo Odeyingbo, Pat Freiermuth, D'Wayne Eskridge, Tutu Atwell, Nick Bolton. As a result, they were able to pick up TMJ, Tremble, Chuba, Nixon, Taylor, Shi, and Hoskins. That's fairly impressive. If just two of those players pan out, that makes the wheeling and dealing worth it imo, though I'm sure others would disagree.

Edited April 10, 2022 by Icege

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, Icege said:

I'm feeling fairly confident about how Jaycee, TMJ, Christensen, and Tremble all develop but I am concerned that the latter three were drafted for an offense that is no longer here. Hopefully they can adapt to McAdoo's system.

The TMJ pick is the one that bothers me the most in terms of how it will play out for the team. I liked the pick when it was made and still think he'll be a good player, but the allure was that he would know Brady's system and work his way in quickly. That ended up not happening, and Brady is no longer here.

However, looking at everything that went down regarding when TMJ was selected... I'm fairly impressed.

• Traded 39th (2nd) and 151st (5th) for the Chicago's 52nd (2nd), 83rd (3rd), and 204th (6th) overall selections. Chicago's pick at #39: Teven Jenkins, OT, Oklahoma St.
• Traded 52nd (2nd) and 113th (4th) for Cleveland's 59th (2nd) and 89th (3rd) overall selections. Cleveland's selection at #52: Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah, LB, Notre Dame.
• Panthers select at #59: Terrace Marshall Jr, WR, LSU.
• Panthers select at #83: Tommy Tremble, TE, Notre Dame.
• Traded 89th (3rd) for Houston's 109th (4th), 158th (5th), and their 2022 4th Rd selections. Houston's selection at #89: Nico Collins, WR, Michigan
• Traded 109th (4th) for Tennessee's 126th (4th), 166th (5th), and 232nd (7th) overall selections. Tennessee's selection: Dez Fitzpatrick, WR, Louisville
• Panthers select at #126: Chuba Hubbard, RB, Oklahoma St
• Panthers select at #158: Daviyon Nixon, DT, Iowa
• Panthers select at #166: Keith Taylor, CB, Washington
• Panthers select at #204: Shi Smith, WR, South Carolina
• Panthers select at #232: Phil Hoskins, DT, Kentucky

The Panthers opted to make a move that meant losing out on one of the following players: Teven Jenkins, Richie Grant, Levi Onwuzurike, Liam Eichenberg, Trevon Moehrig, Kelvin Joseph, Walker Little, Jackson Carman, Asante Samuel Jr, Aaron Banks, Rondale Moore, Azeez Ojulari, Sam Cosmi, Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah, Dillon Radunz, Dayo Odeyingbo, Pat Freiermuth, D'Wayne Eskridge, Tutu Atwell, Nick Bolton. As a result, they were able to pick up TMJ, Tremble, Chuba, Nixon, Taylor, Shi, and Hoskins. That's fairly impressive. If just two of those players pan out, that makes the wheeling and dealing worth it imo, though I'm sure others would disagree.

I simply don't agree. We largely opted for backup caliber players and to accumulate JAGS. 

It would be nice to be wrong but aside from Horn, I believe the 2021 draft class will be considered a dramatic failure.

My takeaway at the time is that we passed on starters for improved depth. I just don't see that as being much of a decision long term.

[Basbear]

2 hours ago, Icege said:

I'm feeling fairly confident about how Jaycee, TMJ, Christensen, and Tremble all develop but I am concerned that the latter three were drafted for an offense that is no longer here. Hopefully they can adapt to McAdoo's system.

The TMJ pick is the one that bothers me the most in terms of how it will play out for the team. I liked the pick when it was made and still think he'll be a good player, but the allure was that he would know Brady's system and work his way in quickly. That ended up not happening, and Brady is no longer here.

However, looking at everything that went down regarding when TMJ was selected... I'm fairly impressed.

• Traded 39th (2nd) and 151st (5th) for the Chicago's 52nd (2nd), 83rd (3rd), and 204th (6th) overall selections. Chicago's pick at #39: Teven Jenkins, OT, Oklahoma St.
• Traded 52nd (2nd) and 113th (4th) for Cleveland's 59th (2nd) and 89th (3rd) overall selections. Cleveland's selection at #52: Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah, LB, Notre Dame.
• Panthers select at #59: Terrace Marshall Jr, WR, LSU.
• Panthers select at #83: Tommy Tremble, TE, Notre Dame.
• Traded 89th (3rd) for Houston's 109th (4th), 158th (5th), and their 2022 4th Rd selections. Houston's selection at #89: Nico Collins, WR, Michigan
• Traded 109th (4th) for Tennessee's 126th (4th), 166th (5th), and 232nd (7th) overall selections. Tennessee's selection: Dez Fitzpatrick, WR, Louisville
• Panthers select at #126: Chuba Hubbard, RB, Oklahoma St
• Panthers select at #158: Daviyon Nixon, DT, Iowa
• Panthers select at #166: Keith Taylor, CB, Washington
• Panthers select at #204: Shi Smith, WR, South Carolina
• Panthers select at #232: Phil Hoskins, DT, Kentucky

The Panthers opted to make a move that meant losing out on one of the following players: Teven Jenkins, Richie Grant, Levi Onwuzurike, Liam Eichenberg, Trevon Moehrig, Kelvin Joseph, Walker Little, Jackson Carman, Asante Samuel Jr, Aaron Banks, Rondale Moore, Azeez Ojulari, Sam Cosmi, Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah, Dillon Radunz, Dayo Odeyingbo, Pat Freiermuth, D'Wayne Eskridge, Tutu Atwell, Nick Bolton. As a result, they were able to pick up TMJ, Tremble, Chuba, Nixon, Taylor, Shi, and Hoskins. That's fairly impressive. If just two of those players pan out, that makes the wheeling and dealing worth it imo, though I'm sure others would disagree.

At the time(during the draft) when the first trade happened, I didnt agree. The more the trading took place, I started to understand and by the time the 5th round rolled around.... They where able to draft Nixon, Taylor and followed with Smith and Brown.......... I truly was on board, just was not use to this method and didnt see the whole picture til the near finish. For sure Finesser improved the draft class that year and added the first 4th this year. He walked into a casino full of sharks with 1,000 and came out with 1,573. Not bad for a first time.

I did want to keep the 2nd and draft Liam Eichenberg...... Figured he was the best true LT left and panthers still need one today. Issue is only one team had worse OL than the panthers and that was Miami.......who drafted Liam......who also played LG after bouncing around.....so..... Could it have been different if landed else where, sure...but thats a rough start. Luckily I dont judge until year2. 

[Basbear]

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

I simply don't agree. We largely opted for backup caliber players and to accumulate JAGS. 

It would be nice to be wrong but aside from Horn, I believe the 2021 draft class will be considered a dramatic failure.

My takeaway at the time is that we passed on starters for improved depth. I just don't see that as being much of a decision long term.

Panthers needed JAGs. This method doesnt work if you already have sound/great team, cause all those extra picks will be cut. Panthers were not that before the draft. I still feel it may go down as one of the best in panthers history. The coming season will show whats in store. Just having two starters and a top backup is a successful draft, I think this group will do much better.

[top dawg]

4 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

I am not sure that what he did last draft and season wouldn't be considered "willy-nilly."

I know the board likes Fitt because of his aggressive trading but we have really yet to see that produce any meaningful results. So, I would be rather skeptical of his trade prowess until we see those results.

That's fair. But we saw glimpses of at least two quality starters in Horn and BC. I haven't mentioned the upside of Tremble, Hubbard or Marshall. Part of not seeing results was just bad luck, and part of it was just coaching. But it's all about perspective. Drafting is about projections. Most of our players had at least decent projections, and I light of the state of the team right now, I'm certainly not going to give up on them so soon.

I've heard something to the effect that if you get one or two starters out of a draft that you've done pretty well. I think at the end of the day, we'll have more than that out of 2021's draft. We're just going to have to be patient.

[Prowler2k18]

On 4/8/2022 at 8:22 PM, Shocker said:

I think Ikey is being overrated personally.  For me if Evan Neal is there you take him.  A move down in any other scenario works for me.

I’m thinking either Neal or Pickett will be the target at 6. If neither are there, we trade down for Penning and additional picks with a chance to take Howell or Ridder.

Edited April 10, 2022 by Prowler2k18