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Does Matt Rhule develop players?

poundaway

By poundaway,
in Carolina Panthers

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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As for Matt Rhule, I don't think he does much DIRECT development of players because I don't think that is something that is in his area of expertise. 

As for his various staff's, he does have that track record in college of identifying physical traits and then developing players that might have been overlooked. I don't think we are seeing a lot of evidence of that in the NFL so far but it might be a year or two for that to net results, in complete fairness. 

He has to have enough on the field success to even last to the point in which we can find out if he can "coach up" guys to being good NFL players.

IMO the critical flaw in this thinking is that most of the guys you draft, unless they came from schools with poor coaching have already had at least 3 years of college development. So that was one or more staff that was developing these guys and they didn't get there. In the late rounds(4th-7th) there isn't a lot of harm to gambling on elite athletes but there is typically a pretty good reason they are later round picks.

 

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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6 minutes ago, poundaway said:

No surprise there.

Yeah, theres a bunch of nuggets like that in most of their podcasts.

Yeah, big fan. They did have the guy back this time who I don't love because he overtalks so much and tends to dominate the conversation.

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WUnderhill Grand Master

WUnderhill

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6 hours ago, poundaway said:

These guys hate Rhule.  They have been blasting him since day three.  At the same time they call them as they see them.

"We know that over time, he's proven coach that over time the team will get better.  It remains to be seen in the NFL.....He has also proven that in the NFL, guys on the fringe, are they gonna be busts?  Are they gonna pan out?  Bro, they're playing good ball. Donte Jackson had a career year last year.  Shaq Thompson had a career year."

The video lists player after player with career years under Rhule. 

Donte Jackson, Shaq Thompson. Curtis Samuel, Mike Davis, Robby Anderson, Teddy Bridgwater,  Jeremy Chinn, all had career years under Rhule.  

"Baylor and Temple wasn't getting 5 star recruits. " He developed athletes into football players and he's "putting them in the league."

 "We went through a 3 and half game stretch where we didn't force any punts in 2020.  Historically, the 2020 Panthers had the second worst 3rd down defense in NFL history.  I don't think for the total year, I don't think we forced no more than 30 punts all year.  That's crazy."

"Look at the strides the defense made from that season that couldn't even force a punt...to this season, we ranked #2, I don't think we were the 2nd best defense in the league, but they were definitely a top half unit.  Those type of improvements is kinda getting overlooked because he missed so hard on the QB position, his building of the OL was atrocious until this year, he didn't really have a lot of good veteran experience in his coaching staff."

Found Matt Rhule’s huddle account.

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poundaway Grand Master

poundaway

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5 hours ago, davos said:

To give Matt credit, this year was the first of his Baylor recruits to hit the big leagues and there were a handful of good ones drafted high.  He at least develops guys from HS to high draftable college level.

Pitre, Bernard, Woods, and Thornton were all really solid talents.  Woods is going to be good for LAC.

I'm anxious to see Woods in the pros.

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Basbear Grand Master

Basbear

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When Rhule got, he did make an effort to say the focus would be on player development. Outside of adding an in-house player therapist and hiring an army of former baylor/temple people.........I have not seen much. I believe the panthers have the largest staff in the NFL.

Shaq and Djack are the only players I can firmly state are better since Rhule became HC. My biggest issue is the panthers are the youngest/oneof teams and Ive not seen what I want from in development terms. 

I will say this is the first time since he arrived, thats its a "normal" NFL off-season. Coaches can get more in-person time with players now. We will see, not a good start.

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WOW!! Grand Master

WOW!!

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Hate all you want but..

Shaq best season under Rhule

Djax best season under Rhule 

Curtis Samuel best season under Rhule

Hassan got a major contract after 1 season under Rhule..

DJ has become a top WR under Rhule..

Just saying some guys have developed or broke thru under Rhule

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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5 hours ago, WOW!! said:

Hate all you want but..

Shaq best season under Rhule

Djax best season under Rhule 

Curtis Samuel best season under Rhule

Hassan got a major contract after 1 season under Rhule..

DJ has become a top WR under Rhule..

Just saying some guys have developed or broke thru under Rhule

The issue is that most of those guys either had success before Rhule or weren't selected by Rhule. So it's hard to say how much credit Matt Rhule gets in that equation.

For instance, if Samuel or Reddick ball out somewhere else(which Reddick technically did before we signed him), doesn't that take away from that argument?

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WOW!! Grand Master

WOW!!

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9 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

The issue is that most of those guys either had success before Rhule or weren't selected by Rhule. So it's hard to say how much credit Matt Rhule gets in that equation.

For instance, if Samuel or Reddick ball out somewhere else(which Reddick technically did before we signed him), doesn't that take away from that argument?

That's your opinion..

But plain and simple whether he drafted them or not if there best season comes under his tenure he should get some credit for it..

Shaq was almost a pro bowler this year.. Rhule and staff get credit for that..

Curtis hasn't and without that season under Rhule and staff he wouldn't have been close to getting that contract..

And Hassan had better season but nobody wanted to pay him until Rhule put the spotlight on him here...

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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17 minutes ago, WOW!! said:

That's your opinion..

But plain and simple whether he drafted them or not if there best season comes under his tenure he should get some credit for it..

Shaq was almost a pro bowler this year.. Rhule and staff get credit for that..

Curtis hasn't and without that season under Rhule and staff he wouldn't have been close to getting that contract..

And Hassan had better season but nobody wanted to pay him until Rhule put the spotlight on him here...

Yeah, I am not sure I can give credit to Rhule for that yet. I need to see him actually develop some of his drafted players first.

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poundaway Grand Master

poundaway

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36 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

The issue is that most of those guys either had success before Rhule or weren't selected by Rhule. So it's hard to say how much credit Matt Rhule gets in that equation.

For instance, if Samuel or Reddick ball out somewhere else(which Reddick technically did before we signed him), doesn't that take away from that argument?

I think the whole thing is hard to gauge.  Did MIke Davis improve or did he get a chance to see the field more?  Did Curtis Samuel improve or did he just stay healthy?  Did Donte improve or was it just a contract year?  Teddy's improvement was marginal anyway and he looked just as good in Denver.   Samuel's production declined when he left as did Davis.  Shaq probably improved from a system that fit his strengths.

I think the biggest data point is all the Baylor/Temple kids that Rhule got to the NFL who were not 5 star recruits.  As they said in the cast, development isn't as important in  NFL level anyway, cause your getting that last 2% improvement to give you the edge.

We are stuck with Rhule for the foreseeable future, I'm trying to give him an even shake so that I can at least justify the situation in my mind. 

I like what I see in the offseason this year.   I liked the improvement in the D last year.  If Macadoo, the OL, and Corral pan out, we could be happy fans.

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

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14 hours ago, Basbear said:

When Rhule got, he did make an effort to say the focus would be on player development. Outside of adding an in-house player therapist and hiring an army of former baylor/temple people.........I have not seen much. I believe the panthers have the largest staff in the NFL.

Shaq and Djack are the only players I can firmly state are better since Rhule became HC. My biggest issue is the panthers are the youngest/oneof teams and Ive not seen what I want from in development terms. 

I will say this is the first time since he arrived, thats its a "normal" NFL off-season. Coaches can get more in-person time with players now. We will see, not a good start.

I’m still not convinced about DJack and if he is that much improved.  Think we just saw a lot of weak QB play early combined with a good pass rush.  Which created a narrative that stuck all season even when it no longer applied. 

still think there is a massive gap between DJack and really good CBs like Gilmore.  Think Heinike/McLaurin abusing DJack so badly was a reminder of that later in the year.  

think Jackson slightly improved but nowhere near the level that has been talked about 

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glenwo2 Grand Master

glenwo2

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@Cam's New Arm I'd love to hear your thoughts here instead of just pooing my posts for no reason.

(unless of course you're another burner account of a troll I know)

 

I wasn't wrong about Rhule.   And many agree that he's a pain in the head *AND* the ass.  

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