FMIA: Tanking shouldn’t be a dirty word

[DaveThePanther2008]

2 hours ago, Move the Panthers to Raleigh said:

You’re not a player either, but you will be miserable once again if we don’t get a franchise QB and have to watch sub-par talent “fight” every week with no hope of a championship 

So, 2003 meant nothing to you.  Rodney Peete was our starting QB with an NFL-Europe/ New Orleans Saint backup.  With your philosophy we should have just starting tanking the season right there and then so 2004 we could draft a QB.  We found a gem in Jake who for several seasons guided us to some pretty exciting football.  Even though we never made it to the Super Bowl after his initial season we had fun pulling for the Panthers. 

I'm not a professional football player but I've played enough sports to know teammates don't give up because some silly fans want a higher draft pick.  

Actually I won't.  If the Panthers play well and we're not an embarrassment, I'm good. 

Tell me, 100% that one of these QBs in this draft is going to be a franchise QB that can lead us to a championship.  If you truly believe this, you're kidding yourself. 

[Growl]

9 minutes ago, Captroop said:

...wut?

you are rooting for their ultimate failure in games to them for the next 10 years because you can’t separate your feelings from this one quasi-exhibition match

[DaveThePanther2008]

7 minutes ago, trueblade said:

I don't care if you can guarantee me whichever QB we take at one will be an MVP type of guy. I can't root for us to lose to Atlanta. I just can't do it.

You know I turn on the TV to watch our team.  Thinking here we go again with another loss but as watch Burns get a sack, Jackson making tackle after tackle, PJ making a good throw for a first down.  I cannot help cheering them on.  I want us to win, IDGAF about draft position.  We'll deal with it when the season is over.  

Many hate Fitterer but I believe now that the Fhule is gone.  Fttterer is going to get us some good talent.  Somewhere out there is a QB like Zappe that everyone overlooks and becomes a star. (not saying Zappe is a star yet but he's better than some of the picks ahead of him) 

I would like a QB if, and only if, our GM feels he's better than what we already have on our roster. If our scouting team, Morgan and Fitterer believe that the QBs available at our position are overrated, I'd rather get a young interior lineman or a complete receiver and address the QB when the value is there.

 

[davos]

30 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Whatever draft pick we get, we'll use to the best of our abilities.

Exactly.

We can't control what the team does, so I'll keep watching with interest.  This season has been a hell of a ride so far so might as well soak it in and enjoy whatever it turns out to be.  Draft will come and we'll very likely be targeting a QB wherever we land. Seems like lost energy to get bent out of shape over our draft position on a week to week basis.  

[davos]

18 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

So, 2003 meant nothing to you.  Rodney Peete was our starting QB with an NFL-Europe/ New Orleans Saint backup.  With your philosophy we should have just starting tanking the season right there and then so 2004 we could draft a QB.  We found a gem in Jake who for several seasons guided us to some pretty exciting football.  Even though we never made it to the Super Bowl after his initial season we had fun pulling for the Panthers. 

I'm not a professional football player but I've played enough sports to know teammates don't give up because some silly fans want a higher draft pick.  

Actually I won't.  If the Panthers play well and we're not an embarrassment, I'm good. 

Tell me, 100% that one of these QBs in this draft is going to be a franchise QB that can lead us to a championship.  If you truly believe this, you're kidding yourself. 

Another part of this is the fact that many of the best QBs went into teams with solid infrastructure in place to help them grow.  They went from being a great prospect to solid starter to star.  You can't just put a great QB prospect on a crap squad and then think something will magically happen.  You need to build the staff, the entire environment that helps develop a QB into a star.  They can't just plop into a team like Trevor did with the Jags.  It is very rare to have what we got in Cam.  

So, we have this year to really fine tune things, see who are the core, who is going to help make us a great squad in the next 2-3 years.  Have that in place for a guy, and our choice at 1-10ish could work out better than a crap franchise that is continuously missing at the top and not building something. 

[Move the Panthers to Raleigh]

22 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

So, 2003 meant nothing to you.  Rodney Peete was our starting QB with an NFL-Europe/ New Orleans Saint backup.  With your philosophy we should have just starting tanking the season right there and then so 2004 we could draft a QB.  We found a gem in Jake who for several seasons guided us to some pretty exciting football.  Even though we never made it to the Super Bowl after his initial season we had fun pulling for the Panthers. 

I'm not a professional football player but I've played enough sports to know teammates don't give up because some silly fans want a higher draft pick.  

Actually I won't.  If the Panthers play well and we're not an embarrassment, I'm good. 

Tell me, 100% that one of these QBs in this draft is going to be a franchise QB that can lead us to a championship.  If you truly believe this, you're kidding yourself. 

No, 2003 is still my favorite year as a Panther fan, and I was a Jake fan for awhile too. But Jake could not give us consistent play and wasn’t  a true franchise QB. Why try to go that route again if it failed in the end? We can’t just hope for a magical season like that to happen again, and I don’t want just a magical season. I want a 10-15 year window with a guy that THIS TEAM drafted, developed, and built talent around. That is what makes a great team like the Chiefs, Bills, Patriots, and Steelers of recent history.

[Captroop]

16 minutes ago, Growl said:

you are rooting for their ultimate failure in games to them for the next 10 years because you can’t separate your feelings from this one quasi-exhibition match

So, we lose out, and we're a Super Bowl contender for the next 10 years? It's a lock? We're definitely getting a future hall of fame QB at the 1st overall pick? And we'll go to the playoffs every year? We just need to lose every game, and it's as simple as that? That's what your crystal ball says?

I'm sorry I let my feelings get in the way of your ad hoc prognostication. While we're at it, who wins the super bowl this year?

[Growl]

it’s going to be hilarious when the “do the best we can in the draft” crowd realizes that the best we can is trading three 1s to move up and get a QB, because rest assured, the demographic of Culture Win and play it safe posters are exactly the same

Edited October 24, 2022 by Growl

[SCO96]

5 hours ago, Monrowed said:

Which QB is worth a #1 pick? Maybe one or two of them could go in the first 15 picks, but I am not sure that there is some sort of next Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, or even Trevor Lawrence waiting for some team to take at the first spot. If they are the worst team, then they will get the first pick. Otherwise, they will get the pick that is appropriate for the talent level that exists on this team. 

This is how I feel. I don't see a QB in this draft worth "tanking" for. INone of them jump off the screen as elite prospects. I think there are 3 or 4 who could go in the first round and be successful if the environment is right: 

1) Solid HC and OC

2) Solid O-line

3) Playmakers at skill positions

4) Offense puts the QB in position to maximize his talents and minimize his weaknesses.

In terms of the  Panthers

1) We have no idea what to expect in 2023. We could be better or worse depending on the Tepper's decision about the HC. The team looked good yesterday.

2) Our line is solid and is getting better. We won't get a young QB killed next season unless he just holds onto the ball too long.

3) I could see Hubbard and Freeman getting the job done for the next couple of years if the run blocking holds up. We have DJ. TMJ showed flashes yesterday. Even Tommy Tremble had a TD. Still, it would be nice to have a solid #2 and pass catching threat at TE. We may have answers on the roster...maybe not.

4) All depends on who the HC hires (or retains) as OC.

If we can accomplish all 4 by the start of 2023, it doesn't matter which of the top 4 or 5 we take. I think they'd be coming into a situation that would help them quickly transition into the NFL.

 

[Khyber53]

36 minutes ago, Growl said:

wow yeah no I really don’t care at all about what the gambling addicts in Nevada feel

Me, neither and I think that it was a bad line for the NFL to cross over. Nothing good will come of it, but hey, everything in the name of immediate profits, right?

Integrity eventually became a commodity that could be sold. The amazing thing was how cheaply it could be had for.

[DaveThePanther2008]

3 minutes ago, davos said:

Exactly.

We can't control what the team does, so I'll keep watching with interest.  This season has been a hell of a ride so far so might as well soak it in and enjoy whatever it turns out to be.  Draft will come and we'll very likely be targeting a QB wherever we land. Seems like lost energy to get bent out of shape over our draft position on a week to week basis.  

We've got the best defense in our division and can beat everyone left on our schedule.  If we played like we did yesterday, who knows what will happen. 

[Growl]

4 minutes ago, Captroop said:

So, we lose out, and we're a Super Bowl contender for the next 10 years? It's a lock? We're definitely getting a future hall of fame QB at the 1st overall pick? And we'll go to the playoffs every year? We just need to lose every game, and it's as simple as that? That's what your crystal ball says?

I'm sorry I let my feelings get in the way of your ad hoc prognostication. While we're at it, who wins the super bowl this year?

I couldn’t even get through one sentence of this before I realized how flawed your opinion is, or just stupidly arrogant

since you’re trying to move the goalposts into the realm of the nonsensical to try and validate your absurd stance that it’s better to pick 14 instead of 1, let’s lay out what is actually being said:

nobody thinks that draft picks are assured. What is assured, and what is mathematically proven, is that you need a talented QB to win Super Bowls and that the best place to find that QB relative to every other spot in the draft is at the top.

whatever other garbage you’ve added on to distort the argument because you know in your heart that you’re making an emotional plea and working backwards to support it as opposed to an intellectual one isn’t fooling or resonating with anyone here

Edited October 24, 2022 by Growl

[Zaximus]

In a perfect world we see the players going as hard as they can (and I think they will) but we lose just at the end.    It's a QB league and do we really think PJ Walker is going to lead us to the promise land long term?  I doubt it.  And reclamation projects hardly work out as we are the experts (Carr, Darnold, Baker, etc).  You have to get lucky and get a QB to build around.  The worst spot is just living in mediocrity which this franchise has done since the beginning.  Zero back to back winning seasons.  This has to be fixed and moral victories do not get you there.  

[Zaximus]

4 minutes ago, Captroop said:

So, we lose out, and we're a Super Bowl contender for the next 10 years? It's a lock? We're definitely getting a future hall of fame QB at the 1st overall pick? And we'll go to the playoffs every year? We just need to lose every game, and it's as simple as that? That's what your crystal ball says?

I'm sorry I let my feelings get in the way of your ad hoc prognostication. While we're at it, who wins the super bowl this year?

Is drafting anyone a lock?  No, everyone knows that it isn't.  Is winning 5-7 games every year and living in mediocrity going to get you no where?  That is almost a guarantee.  Why wouldn't we want to take the chance that may work out over the choice that continues to keep us in mediocre purgatory?