"We should have traded Burns" - a rebuttal

[frankw]

12 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Not sure what you did to him but he’s a big fan of me!

He's just still salty about Matt Rhule getting canned. He had his receipts on everyone who said Matt Rhule wasn't the guy ready to make them eat crow and then...poof.

[carpanfan96]

2 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

I meant post some articles from gms and coaches about how they value future picks because I am not seeing it your way.   The only reason imo is they are concerned about their job and not the future of the franchise

I'll look for it tonight or in the morning, been busy at work with a full network refit.  

[Ivan The Awesome]

On 1/4/2023 at 2:48 PM, LinvilleGorge said:

I defended turning the offer down at the time but honestly it was a great offer for a good player who we're gonna have to pay like a great player in a re-signing.

Yeah... we should've taken the offer.

What was the offer? 2 1st rounders or something like that?

 

So essentially one of those 1st rounders you'd have to use to REPLACE Burns and that's not a guarantee that you'll get someone equivalent to his talents or better. You're essentially working ass backwards this way. 

Say for arguments sake you do hit on another DE, but then that leaves the other 1st to try and hit on another position. You'd have to actually get another DE as well, because that's the problem with this D line, we don't have CONSISTANT pass rush, we need someone to book end Burns. 

 

That's why I'm okay with not trading him away. What I really wish is that we should have gotten a little more for CMC. At least another 3rd. You can use those mid round picks to either move up or supply the depth chart or hit on a starter in the 3rd. Replacing CMC is not hard, but having more capital to use for other areas would have been better. 

[Toomers]

1 minute ago, Ivan The Awesome said:

What was the offer? 2 1st rounders or something like that?

 

So essentially one of those 1st rounders you'd have to use to REPLACE Burns and that's not a guarantee that you'll get someone equivalent to his talents or better. You're essentially working ass backwards this way. 

Say for arguments sake you do hit on another DE, but then that leaves the other 1st to try and hit on another position. You'd have to actually get another DE as well, because that's the problem with this D line, we don't have CONSISTANT pass rush, we need someone to book end Burns. 

 

That's why I'm okay with not trading him away. What I really wish is that we should have gotten a little more for CMC. At least another 3rd. You can use those mid round picks to either move up or supply the depth chart or hit on a starter in the 3rd. Replacing CMC is not hard, but having more capital to use for other areas would have been better. 

Once again, why can’t you replace Burns with the 25-30/yr you now have. Since you don’t have to overpay a one dimensional DE to be something he’s not? Would you rather have a Reddick/ Bozeman combo or a Burns/Eflien-type combo. Which is better for the team overall? 
 

   Not only is that part easy to choose, but now you have 3 premium picks on top of already improving the team. Starting with pick 37(or so) this year. Then two extra(and likely top half 1st rounders to trade for a QB or take two more quality players on rookie deals. That’s 5 quality players for not overpaying Burns. Explain how that is better for the team? 

   It’s is amazing how this fanbase falls in love with players. 
 

   

[PantherPhann89]

3 hours ago, Toomers said:

I think you are both completely lost. 
 

Jonathan Jones of CBS Sports is reporting that the Rams offered their 2024 first rounder, 2025 first rounder and a second round pick in 2023 in exchange for Burns. 

I don't recall seeing an offer for 2023

[frankw]

I was in favor of retaining Reddick but you could make the argument his numbers would be looking fairly different with only Derrick Brown on our line to help him out consistently. The Eagles are damn good due to the talent they have around him too. He was also vocal about his frustration with the team by the end of the 2021 season. He wanted to move on.

[Toomers]

2 minutes ago, PantherPhann89 said:

I don't recall seeing an offer for 2023

That’s on you. And the poster you agreed with who insinuated that people didn’t “understand” when they actually did. It’s been common knowledge and rehashed in numerous threads on here for two months. 

[Toomers]

6 minutes ago, frankw said:

I was in favor of retaining Reddick but you could make the argument his numbers would be looking fairly different with only Derrick Brown on our line to help him out consistently. The Eagles are damn good due to the talent they have around him too. He was also vocal about his frustration with the team by the end of the 2021 season. He wanted to move on.

Reddick had 12.5 sacks in 2020 with ARI. Who were their talented players that were the reason for that? 
 

   

[ForJimmy]

17 minutes ago, PantherPhann89 said:

I don't recall seeing an offer for 2023

Yeah they upped to to include this year’s second as their final offer. That’s what the sources where saying at the time.

[frankw]

Just now, Toomers said:

Reddick had 12.5 sacks in 2020 with ARI. Who were their talented players that were the reason for that?   

Are you suggesting I'm saying Reddick isn't good on his own? Because that's not what I said. I said he can't do it all. That's why the Cardinals finished 8-8. The issue we keep coming back to is you remove one DE and replace him who are you putting opposite him? The goal is to win and make the playoffs not build for 2 or 3 years from now. And with that in mind back to Reddick. He wanted to win that's why he went to Philadelphia. If we had talked him into staying and proceeded to trade away Brian Burns that's a good way to make him disgruntled. You're kind of tying yourself in knots with your hypothetical scenarios tbh.

[Martin]

14 minutes ago, frankw said:

I was in favor of retaining Reddick but you could make the argument his numbers would be looking fairly different with only Derrick Brown on our line to help him out consistently. The Eagles are damn good due to the talent they have around him too. He was also vocal about his frustration with the team by the end of the 2021 season. He wanted to move on.

I think you are missing the point. It is super easy to replace Burns. You can easily draft an equivalent player in the end of the first round, it is essentially guaranteed. I’m myself shocked that more teams don’t draft his level of player in the end of the first round as they are available all the time. Or you can sign a FA really cheap to replace him, they are also readily available. This is super easy, yet few teams do it, it is really confusing.

[frankw]

1 minute ago, Martin said:

I think you are missing the point. It is super easy to replace Burns. You can easily draft an equivalent player in the end of the first round

Is it? If it's super easy to replace him why did a team that just won the Super Bowl offer us a haul everyone is still angry we declined?

[frankw]

And no offense but I shudder when people say anything is super easy with this team I've learned my lesson after many an offseason full of hope and optimism where we declared ourselves early winners for moves we've made which then evaporated into nothing. We can sit here all day making plans but there is no easy button with this team.

[Toomers]

2 minutes ago, frankw said:

Are you suggesting I'm saying Reddick isn't good on his own? Because that's not what I said. I said he can't do it all. That's why the Cardinals finished 8-8. The issue we keep coming back to is you remove one DE and replace him who are you putting opposite him? The goal is to win and make the playoffs not build for 2 or 3 years from now. And with that in mind back to Reddick. He wanted to win that's why he went to Philadelphia. If we had talked him into staying and proceeded to trade away Brian Burns that's a good way to make him disgruntled. You're kind of tying yourself in knots with your hypothetical scenarios tbh.

I’m saying you are downplaying his value with those statements. Which is what their intention was. Right? 
 

 You remove one DE(Burns) and there’s enough money to get a pass rush specialist like Reddick, Smith Judon…etc AND a solid 3 down DE on the other side. What are you putting over there with a 27M/yr Burns? Still the same hole to fill with less money and 3 less quality picks. 
 

  Would Reddick have stayed to play for his college coach who gave him the chance in 2021 that no one else would. Who knows? It’s irrelevant. There are many others that have signed similar deals in the last two seasons. Reddick is an example of a player similar to Burns. Except no one wants to pay him 25M for …..reasons. 

  The only hypothetical scenario tied in knots here is the “we should overpay him because” theory that somehow believes Burns should be paid like Bosa, Watt and Garrett. And turning down 3 quality picks is the price to pay him.