"We should have traded Burns" - a rebuttal

[mrcompletely11]

42 minutes ago, frankw said:

Yeah okay. At this point you'll still be venting about the Burns trade that never happened on your death bed.

He didn’t start the thread.   And it’s not really venting just pointing out yet another way this franchise cannot get out if it’s own way.   We make costly mistakes after costly mistake without any semblance of a plan.  Trading cmac and then not trading burns is exhibit a.  

[PanthersGTI]

4 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

He didn’t start the thread.   And it’s not really venting just pointing out yet another way this franchise cannot get out if it’s own way.   We make costly mistakes after costly mistake without any semblance of a plan.  Trading cmac and then not trading burns is exhibit a.  

I mean sounds like a plan to me....get rid of an expensive RB in todays NFL and keep a great young player at one of the most important positions on the field. I know its a meme but.....we could even potentially draft a young pass rusher with the picks we get from Brian Burns! 1 in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. Not guarantee the next DE they draft pans out and Burns isn't reaching the end of his career. 

[NorthTryon]

1 hour ago, frankw said:

The trade didn't happen. Something could still get done his value doesn't just vanish overnight. I don't know why anyone is still angry over this it might be a clue to take a break.

This is backlash from the CMC trade, just look a few posts up. When he was traded, there was wailing and gnashing of teeth. I even saw people on other social media platforms asking if we even had a team to field. There was a subsequent follow up where they bashed Foreman and said he basically ran into lineman and fell down. These fans felt that when they traded #22, there was no way they could compete for 4-5yrs just because that one player was traded. So then it was a plethora of just asinine threads about trading DJ Moore, him being garbage, and Burns needing to be traded because with their favorite player(CMC) gone, the only way they could cope was for it to be a complete rebuild. A burn it all down rebuild it was not, and shouldn't have been as evidenced by almost making the playoffs. It will be like this for a while. 

[top dawg]

3 hours ago, stbugs said:

Again, you are talking about trade charts. There’s two sides to every trade and the team getting picks for players is typically not a contender (like us). Teams like us know that we can wait a year and that 1st is way more valuable than the current second.

You haven’t responded to my question about players. Tell me based on our history of this year’s 2nd is the same and next year’s first to our future:

Samuel or DJ Moore

Donte or Burns

Little or Brown

YGM or Horn

Marshall or Iky

Last five drafts, which would you rather have? Trade charts are meaningless, future 1sts are still 1st round talents and current 2nds are still 2nd round talents.

I couldn't agree more. First round talent is generally first round talent (and the same for any round). Literally the ONLY thing that changes is the year and the pool of players. The pool of players changes every year, and no one can say which draft is actually better until many many years down the road, if they can do it then.  I mean, it's easy to look over the years and determine if a particular draft was special positionally, but it's probably very subjective as to grading entire draft classes versus one another. Historically, first round talent is first round talent, and they're the ones that stay in the league the most. Equating an actual first round pick---literally an opportunity to draft in the first round---to a second or third is ultimately disingenuous (especially to a team that is rebuilding).

On an off note, picks are so valuable that the NFL limits teams using them as draft capital to three years in advance. I think that three year window is a good gage to indicate that basically in terms of the three-year period, the NFL views all the picks similarly (if you understand what I'm saying). 

[frankw]

3 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

He didn’t start the thread.   And it’s not really venting just pointing out yet another way this franchise cannot get out if it’s own way.   We make costly mistakes after costly mistake without any semblance of a plan.  Trading cmac and then not trading burns is exhibit a.  

I can agree with some of this because I am not at all sold on Fitterer. But the McCaffrey haul for a player that plays a devalued position was a no brainer kind of move. Burns will command  significantly more now or later pass rushers are 1B to the 1A of franchise quarterbacks in terms of worth for the most sought after positions in the NFL now. This isn't over just let it play out.

[carpanfan96]

First on players, it depends on where the pick is at in the first.  I go off what nfl teams do not fans. 

Heck there are teams that limit there scouts to 15 players for a first round grade. There's reasoning for this as well. 

It's legit how the NFL scouting world works, this next draft has 14-17 players that actually legit have a first round grade. 

It's also not an exact science because scouts miss all the damn time. 

There's articles on this and interviews with GM's talking about this. 

[mrcompletely11]

1 minute ago, carpanfan96 said:

First on players, it depends on where the pick is at in the first.  I go off what nfl teams do not fans. 

Heck there are teams that limit there scouts to 15 players for a first round grade. There's reasoning for this as well. 

It's legit how the NFL scouting world works, this next draft has 14-17 players that actually legit have a first round grade. 

It's also not an exact science because scouts miss all the damn time. 

There's articles on this and interviews with GM's talking about this. 

Please link some it would be informative for your position 

[carpanfan96]

9 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Please link some it would be informative for your position 

 

There's also an ESPN insider article from Matt Miller

This information comes from NFL scouts and GM's. 

 

There's other post draft interviews with gms who have said the same things as well. 

[mrcompletely11]

11 minutes ago, carpanfan96 said:

 

There's also an ESPN insider article from Matt Miller

This information comes from NFL scouts and GM's. 

 

There's other post draft interviews with gms who have said the same things as well. 

I meant post some articles from gms and coaches about how they value future picks because I am not seeing it your way.   The only reason imo is they are concerned about their job and not the future of the franchise

[mrcompletely11]

here is a Reddit thread discussing it with good points for both sides.  It does raise the question why you don see it happen more in reverse 

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/la9tda/how_much_value_do_future_draft_picks_hold/

[PantherPhann89]

19 hours ago, cookinbrak said:

I don't think folks understand there were no picks for this draft.

I think you're right...

[PantherPhann89]

19 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

To move up if needed

How could we have moved up future picks for Burns? Unless you're suggesting that we traded those future picks for current picks...

[Toomers]

7 minutes ago, PantherPhann89 said:

I think you're right...

I think you are both completely lost. 
 

Jonathan Jones of CBS Sports is reporting that the Rams offered their 2024 first rounder, 2025 first rounder and a second round pick in 2023 in exchange for Burns. 

[frankw]

@poundawayMust be having a bad day.