QB breakdowns by Josh McCown

[Wolfcop]

4 hours ago, Martin said:

Question for the Young crowd. One of his main strengths is to extend plays / improvise when plays break down. The few games I’ve seen he’s broken a lot of arm tackles when extending plays, do we really think he can continue to do that in the NFL? I’m concerned that it is something he only could get away with in College (and please don’t give me the “well he played in the SEC”). But many of you have watched a lot more games. Will this really be able to carry over to the NFL? I appreciate your input.

Anyone who is being honest would say they don’t really know. There is not much of a sample size to compare him to. Whey they do compare him they try to use Kyler Murray, but Murray is thicker, stronger, and faster and has a much stronger arm. Even so, Murray has struggled in his own situation. 

[Krovvy]

9 hours ago, Martin said:

Question for the Young crowd. One of his main strengths is to extend plays / improvise when plays break down. The few games I’ve seen he’s broken a lot of arm tackles when extending plays, do we really think he can continue to do that in the NFL? I’m concerned that it is something he only could get away with in College (and please don’t give me the “well he played in the SEC”). But many of you have watched a lot more games. Will this really be able to carry over to the NFL? I appreciate your input.

I mean, say his pocket elusiveness doesn't work out in the NFL. Does this mean he's any worse than Stroud in this area? From watching Stroud, I've found he doesn't do well within the pocket while even somewhat pressured. He can sometimes scramble outside the pocket and make a throw, but he doesn't do it consistently. If we're going to knock Young for a trait might not working in the NFL, we have to knock Stroud for something he hasn't shown in college.

[Martin]

26 minutes ago, Krovvy said:

I mean, say his pocket elusiveness doesn't work out in the NFL. Does this mean he's any worse than Stroud in this area? From watching Stroud, I've found he doesn't do well within the pocket while even somewhat pressured. He can sometimes scramble outside the pocket and make a throw, but he doesn't do it consistently. If we're going to knock Young for a trait might not working in the NFL, we have to knock Stroud for something he hasn't shown in college.

Sounds like I hit a nerve for some reason. I was just asking as it is a concern of mine and I wanted some input from people that watched a lot more games than I did. His ability to to do this is something brought up all the time, and the one thing he currently has that could make him a better prospect than Stroud, so I found it important to understand. 

[Krovvy]

3 minutes ago, Martin said:

Sounds like I hit a nerve for some reason. I was just asking as it is a concern of mine and I wanted some input from people that watched a lot more games than I did. His ability to to do this is something brought up all the time, and the one thing he currently has that could make him a better prospect than Stroud, so I found it important to understand. 

I don't think you did. This is a valid concerned. I'm not sold on any quarterback at this point.

It's just Stroud is the easiest to fault as far as film of the two. With Bryce, the biggest knock is that he's built like a JV high school quarterback with an average arm. With Stroud, there's questions about how he deals with pressure, progresses through reads, and his unwillingness to get yards with his legs.

[CPF4LIFE]

57 minutes ago, Krovvy said:

I don't think you did. This is a valid concerned. I'm not sold on any quarterback at this point.

It's just Stroud is the easiest to fault as far as film of the two. With Bryce, the biggest knock is that he's built like a JV high school quarterback with an average arm. With Stroud, there's questions about how he deals with pressure, progresses through reads, and his unwillingness to get yards with his legs.

I have watched plenty of strouds tape and to say he flat out struggled with these things just isnt telling the whole story ...especially progressing threw reads. I mean my god, even analyst on tv show videos all the time of him doing exactly that.  For somebody that doesn't run as much he would have to stand in the pocket to make reads to match is production because his first read was definitely not always open. 

[Krovvy]

3 hours ago, CPF4LIFE said:

I have watched plenty of strouds tape and to say he flat out struggled with these things just isnt telling the whole story ...especially progressing threw reads. I mean my god, even analyst on tv show videos all the time of him doing exactly that.  For somebody that doesn't run as much he would have to stand in the pocket to make reads to match is production because his first read was definitely not always open. 

Yeah, they show it, I guess. You can always watch him lock onto his first read more than any of the top four not named Levis.

[gmonjimbo]

On 4/2/2023 at 1:53 PM, 96Bravo said:

I'm concerned about size because how on earth can a 5'10 QB see behind a big OL? Obviously, he has to wait for creases to open up or run out of the pocket (which is Young's MO) to see the whole field. And to constantly be on the move invites all kinds of injuries...including non-contact injuries. 

But my biggest concern about Bryce Young is his performance in the National Championship. I know he's played well in some big games, but when the time came to play in the BIGGEST college game of all...he didn't live up to expectations. 

I know that sounds too critical, but given the hype and reputation surrounding Young and Alabama, it's a bit of a head-scratcher.

To provide some context - entering the National Championship game against Georgia John Metchie, Alabama's second leading receiver tore his ACL in the SEC championship game. Then their leading receiver, Jameson Williams tore his ACL on the opening drive of the second quarter against Georgia in the National championship game. At that point the game was tied 3-3 Williams had four catches for 65 yards and in the previous matchup against Georgia, Williams had 7 receptions 184 yards and 2 TDs. 

It's not to make an excuse for him but to give context heading into and during national title game

[gmonjimbo]

21 hours ago, Martin said:

Sounds like I hit a nerve for some reason. I was just asking as it is a concern of mine and I wanted some input from people that watched a lot more games than I did. His ability to do this is something brought up all the time, and the one thing he currently has that could make him a better prospect than Stroud, so I found it important to understand. 

 If we ignore Young's ability to improvise, I still think he is better than Stroud. Young played in a pro-style offense, set protections, and called audibles. 

When I hear guys like JT O'Sullivan review Stroud's tape. The analysis is positive however he does give credit to Ryan Day in terms of having a great offensive infrastructure. Joe Klatt also list Stroud as #5 in his top 50 college players entering the draft. He too mentions that Ohio State has a great scheme. This isn't to say that Stroud is a horrible QB or throws to wide-open WRs. I think Bryce Young particularly in 2022 operated with less training wheels

 

 

[Wolfcop]

15 hours ago, gmonjimbo said:

 If we ignore Young's ability to improvise, I still think he is better than Stroud. Young played in a pro-style offense, set protections, and called audibles. 

When I hear guys like JT O'Sullivan review Stroud's tape. The analysis is positive however he does give credit to Ryan Day in terms of having a great offensive infrastructure. Joe Klatt also list Stroud as #5 in his top 50 college players entering the draft. He too mentions that Ohio State has a great scheme. This isn't to say that Stroud is a horrible QB or throws to wide-open WRs. I think Bryce Young particularly in 2022 operated with less training wheels

 

 

A lot of that is on the coach. Some prefer to run their systems themselves in college. It doesn’t mean Stroud is incapable of doing so. It is impressive that Young did as much as he did, though. He is obviously highly intelligent. 

[frankw]

16 hours ago, gmonjimbo said:

This isn't to say that Stroud is a horrible QB or throws to wide-open WRs. I think Bryce Young particularly in 2022 operated with less training wheels

Less training wheels? His coach was Nick Saban who will most likely retire with well over 300 career wins. Folks will speak about the OSU offense like it's easy mode then act like Alabama is some low level program run by just anybody. Comical.

[Ivory Panther]

1 hour ago, frankw said:

Less training wheels? His coach was Nick Saban who will most likely retire with well over 300 career wins. Folks will speak about the OSU offense like it's easy mode then act like Alabama is some low level program run by just anybody. Comical.

so much passion and heartburn for someone who claims to be cool with either QB. lmao

[gmonjimbo]

1 hour ago, frankw said:

Less training wheels? His coach was Nick Saban who will most likely retire with well over 300 career wins. Folks will speak about the OSU offense like it's easy mode then act like Alabama is some low level program run by just anybody. Comical.

Yes, less training wheels. Bryce operated with more command of the offense and this is supported by Nick Saban's comments that Bryce was like an extra coach on the field this year and the Panthers GM stating that Young's understanding of the game is already at an NFL level.

Also, the quality at receiver this year at Alabama wasn't like the previous year with John Metchie and Jameson Williams then before Jaylen Waddle and Devonta Smith or Jerry Jeudy and Henry Ruggs.  No OL, TE, or WR from Alabama is projected to go in the first two rounds this year. Jahmyr Gibbs, their RB should be late 1st or early second.

This isn't a knock on Stroud or why he shouldn't be considered for no.1 pick. He just wasn't asked to do more than Young this past season and had more talent at offense. 

[Martin]

15 minutes ago, gmonjimbo said:

Yes, less training wheels. Bryce operated with more command of the offense and this is supported by Nick Saban's comments that Bryce was like an extra coach on the field this year and the Panthers GM stating that Young's understanding of the game is already at an NFL level.

Also, the quality at receiver this year at Alabama wasn't like the previous year with John Metchie and Jameson Williams then before Jaylen Waddle and Devonta Smith or Jerry Jeudy and Henry Ruggs.  No OL, TE, or WR from Alabama is projected to go in the first two rounds this year. Jahmyr Gibbs, their RB should be late 1st or early second.

This isn't a knock on Stroud or why he shouldn't be considered for no.1 pick. He just wasn't asked to do more than Young this past season and had more talent at offense. 

There is no doubt Young was asked to do more. The question is what Stroud can do vs. what he was asked to do. I think Stroud projects better to the NFL, but that’s just my opinion.

Young makes me nervous but I will obviously support him 100% if he’s the choice.

SEC wasn’t nearly as good as usual this year, in line with Alabama’s supporting cast, so I think it’s a wash. They are still all 4 and 5 star players.

[Martin]

27 minutes ago, Ivory Panther said:

so much passion and heartburn for someone who claims to be cool with either QB. lmao

For someone that plays the victim card, you sure jump at any chance to poke and prod at people.