Jump to content

  • Welcome!

    Register and log in easily with Twitter or Google accounts!

    Or simply create a new Huddle account. 

    Members receive fewer ads , access our dark theme, and the ability to join the discussion!

     

The question of the day: is Derrick Brown good, elite, or fine?

electro's horse
 Share

Recommended Posts

pantherclaw Grand Master

pantherclaw

Posted
Posted

He's not a pass rusher. He wasn't drafted to be a pass rusher.  He did have a slow start, but the last half of his rookie season was fantastic.  

He had a down year, but he rebounded. Top 10 is where he should be rated currently. He still has room to grow. 

He's worth an extension, unless they can find an upgrade in the draft next year. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
pantherclaw Grand Master

pantherclaw

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, JawnyBlaze said:

He’s elite for his role, which isn’t to be Aaron Donald and yet is still critical for those around him. Same way Star was great in a way that casuals couldn’t appreciate. 

Those tackles are rare, plus playba different role than what Brown is asked to do. 

  • Beer 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhoKnows Grand Master

WhoKnows

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, pantherclaw said:

He's not a pass rusher. He wasn't drafted to be a pass rusher.  He did have a slow start, but the last half of his rookie season was fantastic.  

He had a down year, but he rebounded. Top 10 is where he should be rated currently. He still has room to grow. 

He's worth an extension, unless they can find an upgrade in the draft next year. 

He had 8.5 sacks his last two years at Auburn so I disagree that we weren’t expecting pass rushing. You don’t take just a nose tackle at 7. You take an elite DT at 7. I think we expected a bit more than 1 sack last year but he was still way more disruptive and active than 2021. That’s why I don’t consider him elite. Maybe that pass rush/sacks will come as a 3-4 DE.

  • Poo 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
pantherclaw Grand Master

pantherclaw

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, WhoKnows said:

He had 8.5 sacks his last two years at Auburn so I disagree that we weren’t expecting pass rushing. You don’t take just a nose tackle at 7. You take an elite DT at 7. I think we expected a bit more than 1 sack last year but he was still way more disruptive and active than 2021. That’s why I don’t consider him elite. Maybe that pass rush/sacks will come as a 3-4 DE.

Disagree all you want to, use your eye balls and see how the Panthers were playing him. 

I swear nobody know what common sense and observation is anymore. 

  • Pie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JawnyBlaze Grand Master

JawnyBlaze

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, WhoKnows said:

He had 8.5 sacks his last two years at Auburn so I disagree that we weren’t expecting pass rushing. You don’t take just a nose tackle at 7. You take an elite DT at 7. I think we expected a bit more than 1 sack last year but he was still way more disruptive and active than 2021. That’s why I don’t consider him elite. Maybe that pass rush/sacks will come as a 3-4 DE.

You absolutely take NTs that high. Think the Bucs regret spending a top 12 pick on Vea?  What about Baltimore and Haloti Ngata?  Good DTs like those two and Brown affect the game in other ways than their own pass rush. They disrupt an offense, whether by pushing the pocket into the lap of the QB or redirecting run plays or simply taking on blockers to give other defensive players freedom to do work.  DTs like Brown are unsung heroes because they don’t stockpile stats but they are one of the biggest impact players on a defense, and for more than a sack a game or so. The best pass rushers in history didn’t even get their precious sacks more than 1.5 times a game. 

  • Beer 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WhoKnows Grand Master

WhoKnows

Posted
Posted
41 minutes ago, JawnyBlaze said:

You absolutely take NTs that high. Think the Bucs regret spending a top 12 pick on Vea?  What about Baltimore and Haloti Ngata?  Good DTs like those two and Brown affect the game in other ways than their own pass rush. They disrupt an offense, whether by pushing the pocket into the lap of the QB or redirecting run plays or simply taking on blockers to give other defensive players freedom to do work.  DTs like Brown are unsung heroes because they don’t stockpile stats but they are one of the biggest impact players on a defense, and for more than a sack a game or so. The best pass rushers in history didn’t even get their precious sacks more than 1.5 times a game. 

Vea had 6.5 sacks last year. That’s 0.5 more than Brown in 3 years. Brown went 7th, Vea 12th. Ngata went 12th as well and in year 4 started a run of 5 straight pro bowls with three years of 5+ sacks. Do you see Brown starting a run of 5 straight pro bowls or getting 5-6 sacks?

There’s a huge difference between 12th and 7th. Herbert was the QB that went right before Brown. Rosen was the QB who went 2 picks before Vea. Star went 14th.

Brown was as good as we could get unless we wanted to go tackle (I wanted Wirfs) or WR (Lamb or Jefferson would be fun). That draft was tough and we likely should have traded up then if we liked Herbert so much.

I’m not dissing Brown, but he hasn’t gotten to Vea/Ngata level and IMHO 7th is too high for a NT without sacks. Only way the pick was worth it over say Wirfs or a trade up for QB (would have cost less), is if he ups his pass rush game this year and becomes a pro-bowler. Vea and Ngata both made it year 4.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
JawnyBlaze Grand Master

JawnyBlaze

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

Vea had 6.5 sacks last year. That’s 0.5 more than Brown in 3 years. Brown went 7th, Vea 12th. Ngata went 12th as well and in year 4 started a run of 5 straight pro bowls with three years of 5+ sacks. Do you see Brown starting a run of 5 straight pro bowls or getting 5-6 sacks?

There’s a huge difference between 12th and 7th. Herbert was the QB that went right before Brown. Rosen was the QB who went 2 picks before Vea. Star went 14th.

Brown was as good as we could get unless we wanted to go tackle (I wanted Wirfs) or WR (Lamb or Jefferson would be fun). That draft was tough and we likely should have traded up then if we liked Herbert so much.

I’m not dissing Brown, but he hasn’t gotten to Vea/Ngata level and IMHO 7th is too high for a NT without sacks. Only way the pick was worth it over say Wirfs or a trade up for QB (would have cost less), is if he ups his pass rush game this year and becomes a pro-bowler. Vea and Ngata both made it year 4.

There isn’t a huge difference between 12 and 7 when talking about whether a position is drafted at that spot or not. No position is “not good value” at 7 but “good value” at 12. Ngata had 32 sacks in 12 years. He wasn’t a sack guy.  I respect your opinion, but I greatly disagree that sacks are needed or even a good indicator of contribution or value at that position.  Brown had been improving every year and started out well too. He’s not far off of Vea, if less at all (I’d have to watch more of Vea to give a strong opinion).  And 5 sacks, 6 sacks, these are not significant numbers. For a position where sacks are tertiary at best, you have to judge based on how they disrupt the offense as a whole, not whether they get a sack every few games or not. It’s like saying a WR who gets 1300 receiving yards and 300 rushing yards is worth #7 but not a WR that gets 1300 receiving yards and 50 rushing yards. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • PMH4OWPW7JD2TDGWZKTOYL2T3E.jpg

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Mistuh Jones
      Wild Idea.. Trade for Shemar Stewart

      By Mistuh Jones · Posted

      This is gonna be longest six weeks ever 
    • PNW_PantherMan
      Wild Idea.. Trade for Shemar Stewart

      By PNW_PantherMan · Posted

      This 1000%.  Hey who wants to sign with the guy that couldn't even get his client the guaranteed contract of a 3rd round pick?  Lmao
    • tukafan21
      Wild Idea.. Trade for Shemar Stewart

      By tukafan21 · Posted

      I don't think it's any weird or unique clause, it's the offset language, same thing so many contract disputes are over. It just means that including it, if a player is cut and then signed by another team, the original team would be able to subtract how much they're getting paid by the new team from what they still owe him on their guaranteed money. For example, it's why Russell Wilson signed for the minimum last year with the Steelers as that was included in his Denver contract.  So if he signed with the Steelers for $1 million, he'd get $1 million less from the Broncos, if it was $2 million, he'd get $2 million less, basically he couldn't make any more money than he was already going to make, so you sign for the minimum to not take unnecessary cap room from your new team while giving extra cap room to your old one. The problem with trying to include it in rookie deals is that a team trying to include it, it says they think they don't really believe the player will make it 4 years with the team before they cut them.  And this usually comes up with one or two rookies in most seasons, the difference is it's usually handled much more quietly and not as public and ugly as this one. The other difference is that it's happening with the Bengals, which I believe I saw are one of the few (or only?) team that doesn't have protections for rookies in rookie and mini camps to be able to participate even if they haven't signed their contract yet.  The other teams have injury protections that allow them to still play, but the Bengals do not, which is also why this one is so public and ugly, as most the time this happens, the rookie is still participating in the rookie and subsequent mini camps, giving them more time to get the contract done before training camp when they'd then hold out.
×
×
  • Create New...