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Do you watch CJ Stroud and wonder ‘what if’?

TheBigKat

By TheBigKat,
in Carolina Panthers

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Navy_football Grand Master

Navy_football

Posted
Posted
59 minutes ago, frankw said:

So you want to "take away" plays for one QB to fit your narrative but make excuses for the other QB?

This is why we cannot have productive discussion about our #1 pick.

Really? So by explaining that an occurrence was fascilitated by a rare cause, we can't have a productive discussion? That's the definition of a productive discussion. If Bryce threw a 90 yard TD because the defense had 9 men on the field, I would define that as an definitive outlier cause and not the norm.

Not trying to make excuses frank. I'm not a Bryce stan. If you can go back, I never even wanted a QB in this draft. But when the Panthers traded up to #1, I thought Stroud should have been the pick - I have my own reasons. But I can still objectively see that Bryce is in a horrible situation - from oline, playcalling, and receivers. Stroud does make his guys better. But they are already significantly better than what's here in Carolina no matter who the QB is. And that's based solely on the eye test. I haven't looked at any stats, past or present. I'm basing that on what I see on game days. 

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Navy_football Grand Master

Navy_football

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1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

It's just ironic that you see people down on Bryce as trying to hide the truth while all the reasons that Bryce isn't a bust yet involve things not related to Bryce because there's nothing in his actual play to hang that hat on. All the hope revolves around creating a perfect situation around him meanwhile we have very limited resources to do so due to the trade to get him. THAT is what is really frustrating people. At this point it's VERY obvious that he's not the type of talent to justify the move that we made.

That may be true. But that doesn't mean he's a bust or that he can't be a very good NFL QB. That's the narrative that's being thrown around. Not that he simply wasn't the level of talent to justify what was given up to get him. 

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Navy_football Grand Master

Navy_football

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50 minutes ago, frankw said:

What kind of absurd logic is this? You know you could play this game for any QB ever right? We could even apply this ridiculous logic to many of Cam Newton's best highlights and point out how the defender fuged up so it doesn't actually matter. Do you see how stupid this is? Like this is one of the worst takes I've ever seen.

And yet in this very thread we have people suggesting there is a lack of objectivity on this subject. This is downright comical.

See now, let's chill with the insults. Stupid isn't necessary here. You just don't agree. I assure you I'm not stupid. And I likely have more football knowledge - coaching and playing than you. 

A defender falling down or completely missing an assignment is an anomoly. It is not the norm - unless an offensive playcaller can cause scheme mismatches and mistakes. But falling down for an NFL CB is not something you call in the huddle. 

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Waldo Grand Master

Waldo

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3 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

That may be true. But that doesn't mean he's a bust or that he can't be a very good NFL QB. That's the narrative that's being thrown around. Not that he simply wasn't the level of talent to justify what was given up to get him. 

Yeah it's looking like very good is a pipe dream for him in the NFL. Serviceable is a conversation worth having and that looks like his ceiling and that takes ton of roster changes to even hit that.

He will be a bust for what they spent on him and what they missed out on by picking him but even busts can go on to be serviceable and that is what this entire situation looks like. 

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Navy_football Grand Master

Navy_football

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3 minutes ago, Waldo said:

Yeah it's looking like very good is a pipe dream for him in the NFL. Serviceable is a conversation worth having and that looks like his ceiling and that takes ton of roster changes to even hit that.

He will be a bust for what they spent on him and what they missed out on by picking him but even busts can go on to be serviceable and that is what this entire situation looks like. 

You may be right. I don't know how anyone could possible tell based on the supporting cast. A QB can't do anything without a team. It's literally the most dependent position on the field. Even a WR can out jump or take the ball from a DB. A QB needs the right play (or at least a good one for the defense), adequate blocking, a good route and catch by the receiver, and YAC for icing on the cake. One oline can screw up the entire play. One receiver running the wrong route or a bad route can screw up the play. A bad playcall for the defense is doomed from the start. 

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Jackie Lee Grand Master

Jackie Lee

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Waldo said:

Yeah it's looking like very good is a pipe dream for him in the NFL. Serviceable is a conversation worth having and that looks like his ceiling and that takes ton of roster changes to even hit that.

He will be a bust for what they spent on him and what they missed out on by picking him but even busts can go on to be serviceable and that is what this entire situation looks like. 

Who's your favorite QB ever when you watch that you're like "Wow VERY GOOD PLAY!" lol. "Absolute strike to that 5 yard check down!"

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LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

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24 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

That may be true. But that doesn't mean he's a bust or that he can't be a very good NFL QB. That's the narrative that's being thrown around. Not that he simply wasn't the level of talent to justify what was given up to get him. 

Honestly, he looks like a bust. Without a top tier supporting cast and system I don't see much path to success with him. 

Texans fans have to be laughing their asses off and we would be too if the roles were reversed.

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Waldo Grand Master

Waldo

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

You may be right. I don't know how anyone could possible tell based on the supporting cast. A QB can't do anything without a team. It's literally the most dependent position on the field. Even a WR can out jump or take the ball from a DB. A QB needs the right play (or at least a good one for the defense), adequate blocking, a good route and catch by the receiver, and YAC for icing on the cake. One oline can screw up the entire play. One receiver running the wrong route or a bad route can screw up the play. A bad playcall for the defense is doomed from the start. 

You can tell all the way back on his school tape. People who watch too much college ball tend to blur the lines but if all you watch is the NFL then it stands out.

There is a QB lighting it up in DC while under terrible pressure and there is a QB in Texas doing the same with a limited roster. Coaching may be the only legit thing there but again, his limitations are also visible. Could he go to Miami and put up stats? Probibly, not as much as Tua, but both are a liability when facing good or better teams so it really doesn't matter once they get into the playoffs. All that talent and stats yet no one is saying Miami will take the SB.

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frankw Grand Master

frankw

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12 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

See now, let's chill with the insults. Stupid isn't necessary here. You just don't agree. I assure you I'm not stupid. And I likely have more football knowledge - coaching and playing than you. 

A defender falling down or completely missing an assignment is an anomoly. It is not the norm - unless an offensive playcaller can cause scheme mismatches and mistakes. But falling down for an NFL CB is not something you call in the huddle. 

I never said you or the other guy are stupid. I was referring to the logic. It is rather stupid. Just to make that perfectly clear so there are no hurt feelings. But to be clear if we are wanting to be delicate about use of language then the suggestion that others are not being objective because they are here presenting inconvenient truths about Bryce Young isn't any better. It's just a nicer way of saying people are biased and want the team to be bad which is silly.

If we start picking and choosing plays to form a narrative there's no point of dialogue here. I cannot express that enough. If we disagree so be it there is no further left for us to go agree to disagree.

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TLGPanthersFan Grand Master

TLGPanthersFan

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Posted
1 hour ago, br2nc0 said:

I can't believe people are this delusional on this forum that people are surprised that a veteran did better than a rookie. 

People act like our offense was hitting on all cylinders that game, but our offense completely fell apart the 2nd half of the game. Take away the garbage time TD and we scored 19-21 points. Take away another flukey TD to Chark where the defender literally slipped and we scored 11-13 points. Dalton leaned heavily on Thielen just like Bryce did. Dalton is a vet and was better handled to adjust rather than a rookie, especially 3 weeks into the season. He's not going to be Patrick Mahomes the first season of his rookie career, especially not in this offense. Some players just develop more fast and slower than others, we just need to be a bit more patient and give him a chance in a competent offense.

Bryce will be out of the league 

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LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

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2 minutes ago, Waldo said:

You can tell all the way back on his school tape. People who watch too much college ball tend to blur the lines but if all you watch is the NFL then it stands out.

There is a QB lighting it up in DC while under terrible pressure and there is a QB in Texas doing the same with a limited roster. Coaching may be the only legit thing there but again, his limitations are also visible. Could he go to Miami and put up stats? Probibly, not as much as Tua, but both are a liability when facing good or better teams so it really doesn't matter once they get into the playoffs. All that talent and stats yet no one is saying Miami will take the SB.

I always distinguish between college and pro. There's been plenty of good UNC players that I've been pretty meh on if not completely out on as pro prospects. Not every good college player translates. Hell, most don't.

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TLGPanthersFan Grand Master

TLGPanthersFan

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26 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

That may be true. But that doesn't mean he's a bust or that he can't be a very good NFL QB. That's the narrative that's being thrown around. Not that he simply wasn't the level of talent to justify what was given up to get him. 

Then he would be the exception. Since QBs like him succeeding in the NFL is extremely rare. 

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