If you're looking for an argument...

[WUnderhill]

46 minutes ago, CPF4LIFE said:

Once again...consensus by who? I just randomly googled nfl prospect rankings 2023 and saw a espn list where bryce wasnt even top 5. Im not trying to be snarky when i say this but you dont seem to grasp there is a clear distinction in trying to turn an OPINION into a FACT. Him being consensus 1 is all based off who YOU chose to listen too or whos opinion you valued which would lead to trying to you trying to turn it into a fact. There is also a clear distinction in determining top QB prospect and top prospect period in the class. But whatever at the end of the day. This is a ongoing circle 

You could just click the links provided and read instead of making people explain every little thing to you. You looking at one ranking and saying it’s not consensus, when there are websites dedicated to taking that ranking and every other ranking and making consensus big boards, makes zero sense.

And yeah, we get that it’s the media and we don’t have all the big boards for all the teams. I’d be happy to look at those if you can provide them.

[Seltzer]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

"consensus"

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/2023-nfl-draft-top-10-quarterbacks-2/

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2023/story/_/id/36184202/2023-nfl-draft-jeff-legwold-ranking-top-100-prospects

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/2023-nfl-draft-big-board/

Dude I get you want to be a contrarian and run everyone off this board but your buddies, but this isn't the flex you think it is.

 

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, Seltzer said:

Dude I get you want to be a contrarian and run everyone off this board but your buddies, but this isn't the flex you think it is.

 

This just reads like you encountered information that you didn't like.

[Jackie Lee]

14 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

No one saying they are right. We just can’t pretend like this wasn’t the case because he was more than not the top ranked QB. 

Yeah I remember it was officially the case as soon as the S2 scores were leaked. That's when I begrudgingly accepted we were going Bryce over CJ

[ForJimmy]

8 minutes ago, Jackie Lee said:

Yeah I remember it was officially the case as soon as the S2 scores were leaked. That's when I begrudgingly accepted we were going Bryce over CJ

I still preferred Stroud, but I was always ok with Young. Stroud was always the safer pick with a high ceiling. At worst he was a Goff with a Burrow ceiling. 

Also I hope the S2 never makes an appearance again. Stroud hopefully ruined its credibility forever. 

[jfra78]

1 hour ago, Seltzer said:

You realize both those things can easily be true, right?

1) BY9 was the consensus #1 QB prospect

2) Not every single team or scout had BY9 rated #1

Like someone said, and I'm legitimately not trying to be mean or snarky, but you know what consensus means, right?

It doesn't mean that it was "unanimous" in that every single scout, etc. thought BY9 was the #1 QB prospect, but it does mean that an overwhelming majority of them (Panthers included) thought that way.

And I will say, anyone saying anything like this (I would have taken X over X) after the fact is suspect as hell, and it doesn't even mean anything as a practical matter.

BY9 was objectively and unequivocally the consensus-rated #1 prospect.  I know we live in a world where people feel entitled to create their own facts, but you only need to go back a few months to valid this fact as being true.

I'm sure there are plenty of people claiming now they had Stroud ranked ahead (and they may have although again BY9 was overwhelmingly the favorite by almost every publication and media outlet so I would take that with a grain of salt).

So basically consensus means nothing. It actually means a general agreement which isn't true because there were plenty of scouts and analysts who didn't agree with that "consensus" at the time. 

[Seltzer]

19 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

This just reads like you encountered information that you didn't like.

LOL of all the things you could have taken away.  Here's some actual objective evidence, and it surely doesn't back the hit job you are your minions want to project...

Regardless, for what it's worth, you won.  I'll take my next sabbatical from this (unfortunately) toxic place.

Hope you and your squad enjoy controlling this entire place... might as well put up a banner... "only moderator-approved groupthink allowed!!"

[WUnderhill]

15 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

This just reads like you encountered information that you didn't like.

You realize PFN has an actual “industry consensus” big board?

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/2023-nfl-draft-industry-consensus-big-board/
 

Hell, even the second link you posted from PFN, you know the “PFN Consensus Big Board” aka “not just one guy’s (Ian Cummings’) opinion” had Bryce ahead of CJ. Did you post that on accident? Can’t wait for your non-answer. You figured out what consensus means yet or you still working on that?

[LinvilleGorge]

7 minutes ago, Seltzer said:

LOL of all the things you could have taken away.  Here's some actual objective evidence, and it surely doesn't back the hit job you are your minions want to project...

Regardless, for what it's worth, you won.  I'll take my next sabbatical from this (unfortunately) toxic place.

Hope you and your squad enjoy controlling this entire place... might as well put up a banner... "only moderator-approved groupthink allowed!!"

Yeah, we've talked about that chart. It's interesting. It's also completely subjective. Who is determining "accurate" and "open" and how?

Save me your pity party. No one is trying or threatening to sensor you in anyway.

[Riverboat Ron]

All you have to do is look at the velocity a QB puts on throws and you can tell if they have an NFL arm. Young’s arm was so similar to Jimmy Clausen, I had the same cautious optimism and now I feel exactly how I did in 2010.

[Seltzer]

2 minutes ago, WUnderhill said:

You realize PFN has an actual “industry consensus” big board?

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/2023-nfl-draft-industry-consensus-big-board/
 

Hell, even the second link you posted from PFN, you know the “PFN Consensus Big Board” aka “not just one guy’s (Ian Cummings’) opinion” had Bryce ahead of CJ. Did you post that on accident? Can’t wait for your non-answer. You figured out what consensus means yet or you still working on that?

I honestly thought Linville Gorge was a good guy, but more importantly, had great input and contributed a lot until this recent nonsense.

Just complete toxicity if you don't agree with what he thinks the groupthink should be...

I'm not sure if the abyss the franchise is in is the cause or what, but it is glaring what both he and unfortunately this board has devolved into...

[LinvilleGorge]

6 minutes ago, WUnderhill said:

You realize PFN has an actual “industry consensus” big board?

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/2023-nfl-draft-industry-consensus-big-board/
 

Hell, even the second link you posted from PFN, you know the “PFN Consensus Big Board” aka “not just one guy’s (Ian Cummings’) opinion” had Bryce ahead of CJ. Did you post that on accident? Can’t wait for your non-answer. You figured out what consensus means yet or you still working on that?

I know what "consensus" means. I think y'all are overblowing the level of consensus in Bryce being #1. Yeah, a lot of folks had him #1. A lot more had him #1 when it became obvious the Panthers would indeed draft him #1. Is it because they had him #1 or because they were trying to be right in their mock draft and rankings? But there were plenty of folks who didn't have him #1. To me, consensus means that there is broad agreement with little dissent. No, it's not unanimity but it's damn close. A simple majority does not equal a consensus IMO. The Ringer also had CJ the #1 overall QB.f

Iy'all want to say he was the consensus #1, fine. It's really a moot point. How about now? You want to see a real consensus? Poll the experts on who the best rookie QB is.

[ForJimmy]

34 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

"consensus"

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/2023-nfl-draft-top-10-quarterbacks-2/

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2023/story/_/id/36184202/2023-nfl-draft-jeff-legwold-ranking-top-100-prospects

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/2023-nfl-draft-big-board/

You really want to go down this road? The links that were already posted had 70 plus in one and a lot more in the other. It’s all been compiled. You are better off saying you didn’t know what the word meant and the experts were wrong which happens a lot. Hell they had Willis showing up on draft day and falling to the 3rd. 

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

You really want to go down this road? The links that were already posted had 70 plus in one and a lot more in the other. It’s all been compiled. You are better off saying you didn’t know what the word meant and the experts were wrong which happens a lot. Hell they had Willis showing up on draft day and falling to the 3rd. 

Yeah, Bob and Tom's mock draft is very relevant in determining expert consensus. A lot of mock drafts are "consensus" because they just copy each other.