CBA News: Heating Up 1/19/2011

[rayzor]

If over the next 3 years I earned 1.2 million dollars and then had to leave my job - even if its the only job I ever trained for in my life - I doubt there would be any sympathy for me in 20 years if I was out of money.

Even at the low end these guys are paid better than all but a select few of the work force. Yes they use their bodies to earn that money, but there is plenty of money there for them to purchase and keep insurance. Especially if all of them worked through the NFLPA to get a group policy.

i would have sympathy. you know how long that money would last under even ideal management right now? not very long. taxes will eat up a lot of that. health care and insurance will eat up another bunch of it. they'll be needing that money for a lot longer than 20 years. the older they get, the worse shape their bodies are going to be in. the drain on their finances will only increase over time.

i just don't think that they are all that set up for life on just a few years of playing. it's also the minority of players that are able to crack the $1mil mark.

they don't have it as made or are as set up for life as many think.

if they were to retire right now at 65 w/ $1.2 mil in the bank (or invested), there are few who would be able to finish off their years with the economy being so bad. these guys are asked to live for the next 40 years on this money if they are unable to find solid employment for very long do to physical and mental health concerns.

these guys might be spoiled for a moment, but that moment is fleeting.

[panthers55]

i these guys are asked to live for the next 40 years on this money if they are unable to find solid employment for very long do to physical and mental health concerns.

these guys might be spoiled for a moment, but that moment is fleeting.

NO they aren't. These guys are at the worst in their late 30s when they retire from football. Many retire in their 20s. They are expected like everyone else to get a job and work for the next 30 years. Many work in law enforcement. Others are smart enough to parlay some of their money into buying businesses, restaurants or other ventures. What is crazy is anyone who thinks that they should expect to live off their money for the next 40 years. Secondly not everyone who plays football is an invalid and unable to walk or move for life. Plus most don't have more mental health issues than when they came into the league. For every extreme case where a player has multiple concussions and early dementia, there are a 100 cases where they are physically okay and mentally stable.

This is their first career and a damn lucrative one it is. But most folks are sxpected to work a second one as would any of us who made a good deal of money in our 20s or 30s.

[blackcatgrowl]

NO they aren't. These guys are at the worst in their late 30s when they retire from football. Many retire in their 20s. They are expected like everyone else to get a job and work for the next 30 years. Many work in law enforcement. Others are smart enough to parlay some of their money into buying businesses, restaurants or other ventures. What is crazy is anyone who thinks that they should expect to live off their money for the next 40 years. Secondly not everyone who plays football is an invalid and unable to walk or move for life. Plus most don't have more mental health issues than when they came into the league. For every extreme case where a player has multiple concussions and early dementia, there are a 100 cases where they are physically okay and mentally stable.

This is their first career and a damn lucrative one it is. But most folks are sxpected to work a second one as would any of us who made a good deal of money in our 20s or 30s.

Yep... and consider this:

And what about the "average" player?

http://www.ehow.com/facts_5005211_what-average-salary-nfl-players.html

What is the Average Salary of NFL Players?

By an eHow Contributor

The average NFL salary is a shade under $1.8 million in 2009, but that can be a misleading number. Less than a quarter of the roughly 1,800 NFL players make that amount, and less than half make a million dollars per season. In reality, the NFL isn't nearly the "easy money" venue that many fans think. The majority of players never even see a million dollars for their career. Yet, a select few do end up quite rich.

The Base Salary

1. The league minimum is $295,000, according to the NFL Players Association. That money is guaranteed for any player who is on an active roster for at least three games.

The Average Base Salary

2. The average base salary was $990,000, but players can make much more money than that, according to a analysis of NFL salary databases.

The Average Signing Bonus

3. Signing bonuses are the ways that most players make their money. The average signing bonus for all players is $1.34 million, which is a large number considering that almost 600 players don't have one in their current contract.

Other Bonuses

4. Players can sign various other bonuses into their contracts, which unlike signing bonuses, count as part of the total salary. That average was $440,000 during the 2008 season.

Salaries Per Team

5. The Tampa Bay Buccaneers spent a little more than $1.4 million per player in the 2008 season. That included 37 players making more than $1 million. The Green Bay Packers had the lowest median average at $640,000.

Now this is the part that makes me LOL, and shows media bias for the NFLPA...

The Fine Print

6. While many of the salaries look gigantic compared to the average paycheck, these are not guaranteed. That means the money vanishes as soon as a player is cut, retires or leaves the team.

Yes, as soon as they hang their cleats up for the last time, a magical money gremlin appears before them, kicks their asses, takes their wallet and empties every ATM statewide cleaning out their bank accounts.

Now... lets talk about reality... and what this kind of money really IS if properly managed.

If the player was diligent and saved up just a quarter of that $990,000 per year each monthly check, that's $20,625 a month. (Consequently, he would have had about that much to live off with after taxes).

Each month, he deposits that money into an IRA. If he retires after just THREE YEARS, and doesn't work again, he can withdraw $5000 a month to live off of for 16 YEARS

http://www.planningtips.com/cgi-bin/annuity.pl?abal=0&pymt=20626&time=3&intr=8.5&ryld=6.5&infl=4.5&raiz=4.5&wdrw=5000&Calculate.x=46&Calculate.y=16

And this is just an IRA. There are much more aggressive investment options out there that can yield higher payouts.

Yeah... that's not "vanishing" overnight. The media and the NFLPA is so full of poo. $5000 a month to live off of is way above poverty ($60,000 a year)

Keep in mind... that's if he never works again, isn't married or has a partner that doesn't work.

[civilizedgrit]

considering that this is likely the most money they will every get paid and the fact that many are having to deal with crippling arthritis at an early age, not to mention the long term effects of brain trauma experienced as a player, they may not have many marketable skills. i just don't know how these guys can be long term contributors to the workforce, even with that, how expensive are their healthcare needs? how expensive is their insurance (that is provided they can even get insured because of the toll the game and conditioning for the game has had on their bodies).

It's nice to be sympathetic. However, I work in healthcare; not only do I currently work with "ordinary people" with "crippling arthritis" or some other chronic condition, but see at least 25 new people every day that are living with arthritis, spinal stenosis, failed back surgery, migraine headaches, Crohn's disease, or a hundred other maladies that they got just for living.

You may not even recognize that the person that works next to YOU has one of these, they simply cope with it and struggle on. And I'll tell you this, NONE of them will EVERr make 3 years of "minimum salary" that an NFL player makes.

My point is that physical infirmity isn't reserved for the football player; it befalls the guy that delivers your mail, teaches your son or daughter, builds the car you drive, or picks up your trash, or, yes, takes care of you in the hospital. Life is full of hazards, but that doesn't mean you get a free ride if you happen to experience a few.

[DaveThePanther2008]

how are the players the bad guys here? the owners are the ones that decided to back out of the CBA.

richardson said the players were wanting to work less and get paid more, but were the players wanting to cut the season back a couple games? were the players wanting a raise?

or...was it the owners that said, "we want you to play two more games a season and also agree to less money"?

sorry, blame for this falls squarely on the owners here. they are asking the players to work more and get paid less. players are being reasonable, imo, in asking that the owners help with healthcare more since they are going to require the players to put themselves at added risk, and with the info coming out about the long term efffects of concussions, it sounds like something that the owners should be doing anyways.

you want a bad guy...look at the owners. it's not the players fault that the owners mismanaged money and have put themselves in a hole and couldn't handle the economy in a downward spiral.

It isn't as much as saying we want you to take less. They are saying you aren't getting the majority of our money to pay you with. The minimum salary is roughly a quarter of a million dollars. That is bottom of the barrel, special teams/bench warmer salary up to your superstars that are receiving more money in one year that most of us will see in a lifetime. I have no sympathy.

The players have NO RIGHT to see the books. Most private companies don't open their books to their employees why should the NFL. (THE ONLY reason Green Bay opened theirs is because the team isn't owned by one person it is owned by the community)

I see where the players COULD ask for a pension/health care but it should be apart of their agreements they sign as a rookie and continued to negotiate throughout their careers.

Like I said before... The owners should not have to lose money especially to men who if they didn't play football would be making less then $100K a year. I have NO SYMPATHY.

IMO So what the owners get richer. It is their business.

[SorthNarolina]

I don't want to discriminate against anybody because of their income but my patience is running thin. I

f the owners aren't running a profitable business then I understand. I don't really totally believe JR's argument though.

But the players don't have many legitimate arguments other than a rookie cap and healthcare. The rookie cap seems a drop in the bucket, it's a win/win. With healthcare I don't see how hard that is either. Base benefits on years in the league and or the severity of the injury.

12 year vet with some messed up nervous system gets full benefits, the works.

12 year vet with little injury history gets full benefits fitting to living a healthy life.

4 year dude with a major life changing injury gets full benefits but possibly not all of the bells and whistles the 12 year guy does.

It might be cold but the gov and insurance companies make these decisions all the time.

4 year dude with little injury history gets a little something but not much.

If players want healthcare then it should only be for those that have either generated enough revenue to make the healthcare sustainable or those that experienced life changing injuries.

Now concerning this I'm colossally ignorant. I don't know diddly about ANY of this. But I do recognize pride and greed showing through and that needs to get put aside. I enjoy college ball but I don't like watching blowouts half the time. I like watching the cream of the crop achieving their life long dreams and making amazing feats of athleticism.

[Snake]

I don't want to discriminate against anybody because of their income but my patience is running thin. I

f the owners aren't running a profitable business then I understand. I don't really totally believe JR's argument though.

But the players don't have many legitimate arguments other than a rookie cap and healthcare. The rookie cap seems a drop in the bucket, it's a win/win. With healthcare I don't see how hard that is either. Base benefits on years in the league and or the severity of the injury.

12 year vet with some messed up nervous system gets full benefits, the works.

12 year vet with little injury history gets full benefits fitting to living a healthy life.

4 year dude with a major life changing injury gets full benefits but possibly not all of the bells and whistles the 12 year guy does.

It might be cold but the gov and insurance companies make these decisions all the time.

4 year dude with little injury history gets a little something but not much.

If players want healthcare then it should only be for those that have either generated enough revenue to make the healthcare sustainable or those that experienced life changing injuries.

Now concerning this I'm colossally ignorant. I don't know diddly about ANY of this. But I do recognize pride and greed showing through and that needs to get put aside. I enjoy college ball but I don't like watching blowouts half the time. I like watching the cream of the crop achieving their life long dreams and making amazing feats of athleticism.

Well see its really not all that simple. For one some owners are good while some are not so good. Also players already get full benefits for there family while they are playing so they want that for the rest of there lives. So there lies the problems.

[unicar15]

Well see its really not all that simple. For one some owners are good while some are not so good. Also players already get full benefits for there family while they are playing so they want that for the rest of there lives. So there lies the problems.

THIS is the big problem I have. I say again...what other employer covers every employee for the remainder of their life?

[Panthro]

State and Federal gov't

[Snake]

THIS is the big problem I have. I say again...what other employer covers every employee for the remainder of their life?

Not just there employees but there families as well. There are some but not many and most of the time you have to work there for at least 50+ years. This is the same reason the Big Autos are having trouble making a profit.

State and Federal gov't

Yea and there the only business thats not worried about money.

[riddel]

Yeah....reading this thread it's apparent many of you people have no clue what the issues are.....

The owners are demanding that the players take an 18% DECREASE in pay and an 11% INCREASE in work, while each of the owners is guaranteed $125 million in TV contracts, which doesn't include tickets, conssessions and merchandise sales.

So, let's put this in perspective. You're boss walks in this AM to the weekly staff meeting and tells you all that your salaries will be DECREASED by 18% and that you will all have to start working 2 saturdays per month, while your boss has secured a mult-million dollar salary through a vendor and refuses to share any of the profits from that vendor with the company even though the vendor requires the employees to do the work. This is called a hierarchy and these types of labor-management relationships no longer exist successfully in the USA. It's why the Unions were created.

[The Saltman]

Yeah....reading this thread it's apparent many of you people have no clue what the issues are.....

The owners are demanding that the players take an 18% DECREASE in pay and an 11% INCREASE in work, while each of the owners is guaranteed $125 million in TV contracts, which doesn't include tickets, conssessions and merchandise sales.

So, let's put this in perspective. You're boss walks in this AM to the weekly staff meeting and tells you all that your salaries will be DECREASED by 18% and that you will all have to start working 2 saturdays per month, while your boss has secured a mult-million dollar salary through a vendor and refuses to share any of the profits from that vendor with the company even though the vendor requires the employees to do the work. This is called a hierarchy and these types of labor-management relationships no longer exist successfully in the USA. It's why the Unions were created.

Rep if I could

[The Saltman]

ya all the players should do that so we could have the CFL here too.

[riddel]

As a lifelong resident of a "right to work" and "at will" state here's what I say to that:

If you don't like the compensation and schedule offered by your current employer then find another job.

Wrong. "right to work" and "at will" states do not avoid the conditions of a CBA contract. Firing union employees for union activities invites very large lawsuits. Furthermore, employees can be fired when a contract exists with out cause, but it is very expensive. Meaning, even if the employee works in a "right to work" or "at will" state, if a contract exists, then that contract over rides the states sovereignty doctrine (Federal govt. providing states with sole power over employment laws). This means that yes you can fire the employee, but you will be responsible for every penny of their contract, unless you can prove that the employee was in breach of contract. So, basically you can fire the guy, but you will pay him for his contract.

This is another reason the union exists.