JJ Jansen on tanking

[Doc Holiday]

7 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

I will say that the NBA lottery has been so obviously corrupt for years that it is disgraceful.

Dude, if the Dallas Mavericks somehow magically ending up with the top overall pick, isn’t one of the clearest signs of it being rigged that I’ve ever seen. I don’t know what is.

like nobody is actually believing this right?

[SmokinwithWilly]

It's almost sickening to watch games now. How many steps constitute traveling? 3, 7, 15? And the flopping is ridiculous. I thought Vlade Divac was bad, but now they're right up there with soccer. No defense. Everyone is tossing up 3s. The product is terrible. 

PK Subban summed up the NBA and fan experience pretty well. 

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

Only one of the major sports leagues felt the need to introduce a mid-season tournament to try and make the players care.  And what happens?  They have special courts and uniforms and they sit stars because they don't care to win the stupid tournament.  League's a complete mess right now.  The numbers speak for themselves.

I mean....the NHL just did this too. 

The NFL turned the Pro Bowl into just a series of games.

The MLB had to make some playoff implications for the All Star winners.

All the sports had to do this because ultimately it doesn't make sense to try hard for exhibitions that are utterly meaningless.

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

It's almost sickening to watch games now. How many steps constitute traveling? 3, 7, 15? And the flopping is ridiculous. I thought Vlade Divac was bad, but now they're right up there with soccer. No defense. Everyone is tossing up 3s. The product is terrible. 

PK Subban summed up the NBA and fan experience pretty well. 

The traveling is ludicrous. They need to fix that.

The flopping has been cleaned up for a while because they had to start suspending players over it. This is literally years old, which tells me you haven't watched in a long time.

[SmokinwithWilly]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

I mean....the NHL just did this too. 

The NFL turned the Pro Bowl into just a series of games.

The MLB had to make some playoff implications for the All Star winners.

All the sports had to do this because ultimately it doesn't make sense to try hard for exhibitions that are utterly meaningless.

The 4 countries tournament was one of the greatest sporting events I've ever seen in pro sports of any genre.

It had no bearing on the season but those guys played playoff level hockey for an exhibition.  

[kungfoodude]

Just now, SmokinwithWilly said:

The 4 countries tournament was one of the greatest sporting events I've ever seen in pro sports of any genre.

It had no bearing on the season but those guys played playoff level hockey for an exhibition.  

Yes, but that was how they accomplished it. They made it MEAN something. Have you ever seen an NHL All Star game? It's fuging unwatchable.

[PNW_PantherMan]

6 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I mean....the NHL just did this too. 

The NFL turned the Pro Bowl into just a series of games.

The MLB had to make some playoff implications for the All Star winners.

All the sports had to do this because ultimately it doesn't make sense to try hard for exhibitions that are utterly meaningless.

The nba in season tournament consisted of regular season games that counted.  Not really the same thing.  I agree the all star games are stupid.

[SmokinwithWilly]

2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

The traveling is ludicrous. They need to fix that.

The flopping has been cleaned up for a while because they had to start suspending players over it. This is literally years old, which tells me you haven't watched in a long time.

I've tried, but its still happening. At least the games I've tried to watch. The product is still atrocious. 

 

2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yes, but that was how they accomplished it. They made it MEAN something. Have you ever seen an NHL All Star game? It's fuging unwatchable.

Yeah, the NHL all star game is bad. I do enjoy the skills challenge tho

[PootieNunu]

2 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

I would generally disagree. You see a lot more load management than previously but that is because being healthy in the playoffs is such a key factor. Different philosophies in that regard than previous generations. 

Baseball really doesn't matter until at least halfway through the season. I am not gonna say they don't play hard but the physical demands are infinitesimal in the MLB in comparison to basically any other major pro sport. 

People dislike all the shooting these days but that's a direct correlation with how much the overall skill level of the average NBA player has drastically risen over the past 15ish years. There are other aggravating factors, certainly, but that is the biggest one in terms of playing style differences. So many of the guys from the 80's and 90's wouldn't even be able to play in the modern NBA at all.

The biggest problem the NBA has with the American market(they are the only US sport that has any real international appeal or interest, minus the NHL) is that they are so steadily corrupt and fix the systems against the small market teams. Well, you eventually lose a big chunk of the league viewership/potential viewership in the process. Take the very obviously fixed NBA draft lotteries.

Superstar and upper tier star players rarely want to play for small market teams, nor can they usually afford to pay them. So how do you expect them to possibly compete in that environment?

Reggie Miller is still 6th all time in 3s made and never won poo playing in the 90s.

All this 3 point shooting bullshit was not flying in the 90s game. The NBA is a joke now.  

 

[PNW_PantherMan]

I don’t really dislike the current game of shooting 3s and fast breaks.  I mostly just hate the coin flip on a nightly basis of whether or not a team will try to win.  Seemed like even the hornets were indifferent about winning certain games even early on in the season.  What are we doing here?  If they don’t care why should we?

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, PootieNunu said:

Reggie Miller is still 6th all time in 3s made and never won poo playing in the 90s.

All this 3 point shooting bullshit was not flying in the 90s game. The NBA is a joke now.  

 

Well the league average from behind the arc was absolutely abysmal in the 80's and most of the 90's. That's literally why you remember it that way.

Stats nerds in the 2000's led to a big increase in volume but the overall shooting percentages from behind the arc have steadily risen over time. That's the biggest individual difference between those eras. The players now on average are insanely more talented than they were then. At the superstar level, they have been relatively static but the average roster/role player is head and shoulders better.

To an extent, it has made the game "boring" because it's not really rare to see good perimeter shooters. It's common.

[t96]

8 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

I will say that the NBA lottery has been so obviously corrupt for years that it is disgraceful.

That and the lack of a hard salary cap makes the league an absolute joke.

[kungfoodude]

8 minutes ago, t96 said:

That and the lack of a hard salary cap makes the league an absolute joke.

The new cap rules make it more difficult to simply outspend and create super teams, actually. 

We are in the infancy of the impacts but most observers expect there to be somewhat of a shift in league behaviors.

[PNW_PantherMan]

8 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

The new cap rules make it more difficult to simply outspend and create super teams, actually. 

We are in the infancy of the impacts but most observers expect there to be somewhat of a shift in league behaviors.

Basketball is the only sport where the draft has 1-2 elite guys and we know who they are.  That kinda hurts when the league is scripting who they want to get the top picks.