something to feel good about in the offseason..."could be something special brewing in Carolina"

[tukafan21]

45 minutes ago, BEASTfromdaEAST said:

I personally think it would be more beneficial to get these young guys a taste of the playoffs and see what it takes to be successful. Which in turn should make them even more hungry to train and become better football players.

Not position in the draft considering most at this point know that drafting players is always a gamble at #1 or #17 it doesn't matter. There are busts at all spots.

So go win now and get punched in the face in playoffs to show them what a real playoff speed football is like.

Just because all draft picks are a gamble doesn't mean you don't have a better chance at hitting on a better player the higher you're drafting.

It would literally be like someone saying, I'll give you 1 or 2 free spins on a slot machine, and you say you'll take the 1 because you're not likely to win anything anyways with 1 or 2, so why bother?

The Cowboys desperately wanted T-Mac, but because they were 4 picks behind us, they weren't able to get him.  If you told Cowboys fans that had they lost 2 more games last year in a lost season, that it would get them the player they wanted so badly, would they in retrospect go back and lose those games to get their guy?

95% of them would take that trade off in a heartbeat, and the others who wouldn't are the fans who would rather enjoy an extra win or two in a poo season to then set themselves up to be better for the next decade.

I also think the fans who argue against this thinking, get too caught up in the "well that means you're going to be rooting against us late in the season even if we still have a shot at the playoffs."

Which isn't true, it's saying if you're telling me right now we'd make the playoffs but lose in the first round, that I'd rather end up 8-9 or 9-8 and just miss the playoffs because in our opinion, the benefits that come along with that outweigh the benefit of the players getting 1 game of playoff experience.

[HaricotVert]

As a fan who doesn’t gamble, who doesn’t let my fandom define me to my friends, who doesn’t get too high or too low based on the team’s performance 

 

Give me wins. Sunday afternoons are a little bit better when we get them. 
 

There is no guarantee I’m going to be here for the next super bowl or five years from now 

 

I’ll take the wins today thanks. 

[LinvilleGorge]

28 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Just because all draft picks are a gamble doesn't mean you don't have a better chance at hitting on a better player the higher you're drafting.

It would literally be like someone saying, I'll give you 1 or 2 free spins on a slot machine, and you say you'll take the 1 because you're not likely to win anything anyways with 1 or 2, so why bother?

The Cowboys desperately wanted T-Mac, but because they were 4 picks behind us, they weren't able to get him.  If you told Cowboys fans that had they lost 2 more games last year in a lost season, that it would get them the player they wanted so badly, would they in retrospect go back and lose those games to get their guy?

95% of them would take that trade off in a heartbeat, and the others who wouldn't are the fans who would rather enjoy an extra win or two in a poo season to then set themselves up to be better for the next decade.

I also think the fans who argue against this thinking, get too caught up in the "well that means you're going to be rooting against us late in the season even if we still have a shot at the playoffs."

Which isn't true, it's saying if you're telling me right now we'd make the playoffs but lose in the first round, that I'd rather end up 8-9 or 9-8 and just miss the playoffs because in our opinion, the benefits that come along with that outweigh the benefit of the players getting 1 game of playoff experience.

Exactly. There's no such thing as a sure thing but the draft pick value chart exists for a reason. Higher draft picks have higher value, simple as that. If you have hapless idiots making the picks it doesn't matter as much but all things being equal it's better to have more options than less options. Every player that comes off the board is a player you can't add to your roster 

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, HaricotVert said:

As a fan who doesn’t gamble, who doesn’t let my fandom define me to my friends, who doesn’t get too high or too low based on the team’s performance 

 

Give me wins. Sunday afternoons are a little bit better when we get them. 
 

There is no guarantee I’m going to be here for the next super bowl or five years from now 

 

I’ll take the wins today thanks. 

If we're still in the playoffs hunt, sure. Once we're mathematically eliminated or once it's such a longshot that it's beyond reasonable hope, fug it...

 

[L-TownCat]

20 hours ago, Lame Duck said:

Is that Boo writing the article?

There are precious few folks still around that would recognize that name.

[poorboysrev]

21 hours ago, tukafan21 said:

Unless a miracle happens and we're legit SB contenders, I want to just miss the playoffs due to some close losses, not win the division to lose in the first round.

We finally have all of our picks again next year, I'd rather be picking 5-7 spots higher in each round, while at the same time, then having a 2nd or 3rd place schedule next year instead of a 1st place one.

I just can't see any scenario where we are true contenders this year, but we should find out if Bryce can be our QB of the future.  If he isn't, then we're not making the playoffs anyways and will have a high pick to replace him.  If he is, it means 2026 is the real opening of our SB window once we add some more defensive pieces, so I'd rather go into that season picking earlier and have an easier schedule.

And yes, I know people will say think like "you need to win to gain confidence and experience, blah blah blah"

But just missing out on the playoffs because you lost couple close games is certainly a way to make a team hungry going into the offseason and keep them motivated to be better.

I've said it before and still think it holds true, we need to look at the Lions and hope to repeat their path.

Our last few years were their early 2020s when they sucked.  This year can be our version of their 2022 when they missed the playoffs in week 17.  Then our 2026 can be their 2023 when they made a run to the NFC Championship game (and really should have won it).  Which then puts us in line to be one of the best teams in the league going into 2027, as they were last year.

Right but you gotta understand there’s no way the team can think that way. Worry about draft positioning and stuff next offseason. We’ve seen years of shitty football. If they make the playoffs and give whoever they play the fight of their lives it’s still a great season and building block. No team goes from toilet to SB in one season

[tukafan21]

2 minutes ago, poorboysrev said:

Right but you gotta understand there’s no way the team can think that way. Worry about draft positioning and stuff next offseason. We’ve seen years of shitty football. If they make the playoffs and give whoever they play the fight of their lives it’s still a great season and building block. No team goes from toilet to SB in one season

Two things terribly wrong with this post.

First is that not one time has myself or anyone else agreeing with me said that the team themselves should think that way or try and lose for positioning.  Never once have I suggested the team should purposefully lose games, ever.  I honestly can't understand why people keep saying this in posts, not one fan has ever said the players should or would purposefully try to lose.

And second, is yes, that has happened and it's happened very recently.  The 2020 Bengals were 4-11-1 and then were playing in the SB the very next season.  

And while it might have been 2 years later and they didn't quite get to the SB, the 2021 Lions were 3-13-1 and then the 2023 Lions were up 24-7 at halftime of the NFC Championship game.

The season between those two?

They finished 9-8 and only just missed the playoffs.

Which is why I keep trying to compare us to the Lions in where we are at in our re-build.  Throw out Bryce's rookie year with the Reich staff who just didn't work out and he looked god awful.  

This past season when we were 5-12 in Canales' 1st season is that 2021 season for the Lions and their 1st season under Campbell.  This year is their 2022 where they grew a ton and Campbell's culture building was clear, where I'm saying we'd likely be better off in the long run if we go 8-9 or 9-8 and just miss out on the playoffs (which is still a significant improvement from last year).  Then our 2026 is their 2024 when we have a chance to be a real contender after adding a few more pieces and our key players having another year of experience under their belts.

[HaricotVert]

38 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

If we're still in the playoffs hunt, sure. Once we're mathematically eliminated or once it's such a longshot that it's beyond reasonable hope, fug it...

 

If we’re eliminated I want the wins more.
 

The season is already a disappointment and if I’m not pulling for wins why bother to tune in?

[tukafan21]

18 minutes ago, HaricotVert said:

If we’re eliminated I want the wins more.
 

The season is already a disappointment and if I’m not pulling for wins why bother to tune in?

Then don't tune in.

It's really not a hard concept to understand, if your making your decision based on your own personal needs/feelings as opposed to what is best for the future of the franchise, then it's a you problem, not a Panthers problem.

When the season is already lost, every fan should be rooting for the same thing.  The team plays hard until the final whistle of the season and keeps improving as a team and individually, but in the end, we still come up short and lose games, and preferably because the other team beat us, not because we screwed up and found a way to lose due to our own fault.

Look at it this way...

If we are up 1 or 2 points with 3 seconds left in the game and the other team is lining up for a FG.  Beyond the joy of victory or the disappointment of defeat, what impact does the other team making or missing the FG have on our team the following season?

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING

Except where we draft and what teams we play due to our finish in the division.

The players and coaches on the team would have the exact same level of improvement and learnings about themselves individually and as a team whether the FG is made or missed.  The ONLY difference in the end is the record in the standings and if the win or loss number changes.

If you want to argue if making the playoffs to lose in the first round or just missing them is better or worse, that's totally fair and I can at least understand the other side of it.  But in what is already a lost season, if you're not hoping your team plays well but ends up losing, then you're cutting off your nose to spite your face.  You're hoping for a moment of happiness at the detriment of the franchise's future, and in turn, you're basically then happy for a moment to only set yourself up for future further disappointment.

[csx]

Another tanking thread 

 

Edited 5 hours ago by csx

[jfra78]

I guarantee you non of the teams who got bounced in the first round give a damn that they fell a few draft spots

[jfra78]

This is exactly the same as saying if we make the playoffs I'd rather lose in the first round than lose in the conference championship game because of draft picks.  Like what are we even talking about here.

[Bostonheelfish]

23 hours ago, tukafan21 said:

Unless a miracle happens and we're legit SB contenders, I want to just miss the playoffs due to some close losses, not win the division to lose in the first round.

We finally have all of our picks again next year, I'd rather be picking 5-7 spots higher in each round, while at the same time, then having a 2nd or 3rd place schedule next year instead of a 1st place one.

I just can't see any scenario where we are true contenders this year, but we should find out if Bryce can be our QB of the future.  If he isn't, then we're not making the playoffs anyways and will have a high pick to replace him.  If he is, it means 2026 is the real opening of our SB window once we add some more defensive pieces, so I'd rather go into that season picking earlier and have an easier schedule.

And yes, I know people will say think like "you need to win to gain confidence and experience, blah blah blah"

But just missing out on the playoffs because you lost couple close games is certainly a way to make a team hungry going into the offseason and keep them motivated to be better.

I've said it before and still think it holds true, we need to look at the Lions and hope to repeat their path.

Our last few years were their early 2020s when they sucked.  This year can be our version of their 2022 when they missed the playoffs in week 17.  Then our 2026 can be their 2023 when they made a run to the NFC Championship game (and really should have won it).  Which then puts us in line to be one of the best teams in the league going into 2027, as they were last year.

Respectfully, leave our fanbase. You’re not a fan of the players who make up the team. They give it all, and deserve to be cheered by those who believe in them; not by a draft bean counter.

[LinvilleGorge]

9 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

I guarantee you non of the teams who got bounced in the first round give a damn that they fell a few draft spots

Nor would most Panthers fans. Making the playoffs is the goal of the regular season. But celebrating wins that do nothing but cost draft position at the end of lost seasons when you're already eliminated is kinda embarrassing. Like somehow you've found a way to turn an already had season into an even bigger spectacle of losing as now you've already lost on the goal of the regular season and now you're onto losing draft position.