It's a preseason game, but...losing is not an option.

[Icege]

Idk... if pro-tank fans can sit say, "The team can still play and try to win, they're just hamstrung beforehand by front office choices" then pro-culture folks can say, "The team can still play and try to win, they're just hamstrung with trying to keep starters healthy and play-calling vanilla so that the games that count towards the record are minimally effected by the games that don't."

[CRA]

9 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins Ph.D. said:

 

Nah, see, this is exactly the kind of excuse-making that keeps this team stuck in neutral. If you’re evaluating a coach or a culture, then yes, even how your 3rd stringers approach the 4th quarter matters. Because that mindset bleeds into the locker room. If you're cool with losing just because it’s late in a preseason game, don’t turn around and cry about “soft coaching” or “lack of accountability” later. That’s where it starts.

You don’t get to cherry-pick when effort and outcome matter. Winning habits are built in the margins, even in the 4th quarter of a preseason game full of bubble guys.
 

the mindset I want to see from our coach.....is pushing all his players to get better and be ready for the season.   So I care about the top of the depth chart being worked (which hasn't been done properly for some time)......and if your future insurance salesman that you know is going to be cut after the game no matter what he does, doesn't get it done versus the future full time vlogger on the other side at the end of game....that doesn't actually matter.  

The debate to me has always been what matters more....wins or losses in preseason......or how your actual players that matter are playing and look? To me, it always been the latter that matters.   Because Bryce could be horrible, Tmac horrible, Icky horrible and then they sit.  Then the depth of your roster beats the depth of the other roster for the win. 

I'll take the starters looking good and then losing with guys not on the roster and depth over the reverse of that. 

[Leeroy Jenkins Ph.D.]

Look at the Lions. Over the past two preseasons, they’re 4-2. Dan Campbell didn’t walk in talking about patience or process, he came in talking about biting kneecaps and changing the damn culture. That team went from being a league-wide punchline to a perennial playoff contender. Why? Because they started giving a damn about effort, discipline, and competitive fire in everything from practices to preseason.

You can say the score doesn’t matter, but when you set the tone the right way, it tends to show up on the scoreboard anyway. Winning is a habit. So is losing. The Lions chose to stop losing and it started with how they approached every single rep.
 

[Leeroy Jenkins Ph.D.]

3 minutes ago, CRA said:

the mindset I want to see from our coach.....is pushing all his players to get better and be ready for the season.   So I care about the top of the depth chart being worked (which hasn't been done properly for some time)......and if your future insurance salesman that you know is going to be cut after the game no matter what he does, doesn't get it done versus the future full time vlogger on the other side at the end of game....that doesn't actually matter.  

The debate to me has always been what matters more....wins or losses in preseason......or how your actual players that matter are playing and look? To me, it always been the latter that matters.   Because Bryce could be horrible, Tmac horrible, Icky horrible and then they sit.  Then the depth of your roster beats the depth of the other roster for the win. 

I'll take the starters looking good and then losing with guys not on the roster and depth over the reverse of that. 

You’re missing the point. Winning in preseason does matter, not for the record books, but for what it reveals. It shows who’s locked in, who’s hungry, and whether your team plays like professionals, top to bottom. And yeah, if our starters look great but our second and third units get torched every week? That’s a problem. Because when injuries hit, and they will, those same guys will be the ones protecting Bryce or trying to close out a real game in December.

You don’t flip a switch in Week 1. You build that edge in August. So spare me the “he was gonna get cut anyway” stuff.  If he’s wearing a Panthers jersey, he better be playing like it means something.
 

[Navy_football]

51 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins Ph.D. said:

You’re missing the point. Winning in preseason does matter, not for the record books, but for what it reveals. It shows who’s locked in, who’s hungry, and whether your team plays like professionals, top to bottom. And yeah, if our starters look great but our second and third units get torched every week? That’s a problem. Because when injuries hit, and they will, those same guys will be the ones protecting Bryce or trying to close out a real game in December.

You don’t flip a switch in Week 1. You build that edge in August. So spare me the “he was gonna get cut anyway” stuff.  If he’s wearing a Panthers jersey, he better be playing like it means something.
 

You're right. I agree with everything you have here. Plus your earlier posts. 

However... Canales needs to have a plan and stick to it. If he does that, I'm good. Even if that doesn't mean a win. Health and playbook confidentiality is more important right now. But effort should NEVER be compromised on the field. Just might not want to show your best plays or keep your 1's and 2's out there too long.

[Shotgun]

 Wining a preseason game has nothing to do with the final score.

[CPcavedweller]

3 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Nobody cares about the final score of a preseason game. We just want to see the guys who are likely to be on the final roster look like they belong.

There is a strong correlation between preseason wins and losses and regular season wins and losses. 

football is a game of attrition and losses in preseason show that your depth is lacking, and that depth will come into play later on. If the Panthers go 0-3, it would be another losing season 90% of the time. 

[6.5 Creedmoor]

The mini-momentum we have been experiencing seems fragile but tangible.  Let's just do both, win and look good late.

[CRA]

2 hours ago, Leeroy Jenkins Ph.D. said:

You’re missing the point. Winning in preseason does matter, not for the record books, but for what it reveals. It shows who’s locked in, who’s hungry, and whether your team plays like professionals, top to bottom. And yeah, if our starters look great but our second and third units get torched every week? That’s a problem. Because when injuries hit, and they will, those same guys will be the ones protecting Bryce or trying to close out a real game in December.

You don’t flip a switch in Week 1. You build that edge in August. So spare me the “he was gonna get cut anyway” stuff.  If he’s wearing a Panthers jersey, he better be playing like it means something.
 

someone said it best earlier, winning in the preseason isn't a reflection of the final score but it is seen in the games. 

again, it is simplified to the two choices below:

A - starting O is complete garbage.  Bryce can't get the ball downfield.  Tmac can't get open.  Icky stinks.  Starting D can't stop the run.  Both units sit after two series.  2nd half, 3rd stringers find away to get it done in a half that features bad football. 

B - starting O is very efficient.  Bryce looks crisp.  Improved routes.  OL is generating great push.  D gets 2 3-and outs.  Then in the second half featuring 3rd stringers, the Panthers lose in an ugly game of football. 

B is the actual win. A is the win on the scoreboard. 

Which one is preferred? The answer is 100% B.  THAT is the point. 

 

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, CPcavedweller said:

There is a strong correlation between preseason wins and losses and regular season wins and losses. 

The opposite is actually true. The correlation is pretty weak. The only strong correlation there is that if you completely suck in the preseason then you're highly likely to lose your week one game. After that the correlation drops to practically nil.

https://www.rcharlie.com/blog/preseason/

[6.5 Creedmoor]

2 minutes ago, CRA said:

someone said it best earlier, winning in the preseason isn't a reflection of the final score but it is seen in the games. 

again, it is simpliefied to the two choices below:

A - starting O is complete garbage.  Bryce can't get the ball downfield.  Tmac can't get open.  Icky stinks.  Starting D can't stop the run.  Both units sit after two series.  2nd half, 3rd stringers find away to get it done in a half that features bad football. 

B - starting O is very efficient.  Bryce looks crips.  Improved routes.  OL is generating great push.  D gets 2 3rd and outs.  Then in the second half featuring 3rd stringers, the Panthers lose in an ugly game of football. 

A is the actual win.  B is the win on the scoreboard. 

Which one is preferred? The answer is 100% A.  THAT is the point. 

 

The answer is A?

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, CRA said:

someone said it best earlier, winning in the preseason isn't a reflection of the final score but it is seen in the games. 

again, it is simpliefied to the two choices below:

A - starting O is complete garbage.  Bryce can't get the ball downfield.  Tmac can't get open.  Icky stinks.  Starting D can't stop the run.  Both units sit after two series.  2nd half, 3rd stringers find away to get it done in a half that features bad football. 

B - starting O is very efficient.  Bryce looks crips.  Improved routes.  OL is generating great push.  D gets 2 3rd and outs.  Then in the second half featuring 3rd stringers, the Panthers lose in an ugly game of football. 

A is the actual win.  B is the win on the scoreboard. 

Which one is preferred? The answer is 100% A.  THAT is the point. 

 

This. The goal of the preseason isn't the score at the end of the game. The goal is for your starters and primary backups to get in work and look ready to go for the regular season. Which team's camp bodies end up playing better is almost entirely irrelevant and as teams are playing their starters less and less in the preseason it's going to probably get less and less relevant in terms of being a predictor for the regular season.

[CRA]

Just now, 6.5 Creedmoor said:

The answer is A?

lol. see my edit.  Brain flipped it as I typed so fast. 

You want Bryce and company looking sharp.  That's the win.  Not the game where we win ugly late and Bryce looks like trash

[Shotgun]

5 minutes ago, CRA said:

someone said it best earlier, winning in the preseason isn't a reflection of the final score but it is seen in the games. 

again, it is simpliefied to the two choices below:

A - starting O is complete garbage.  Bryce can't get the ball downfield.  Tmac can't get open.  Icky stinks.  Starting D can't stop the run.  Both units sit after two series.  2nd half, 3rd stringers find away to get it done in a half that features bad football. 

B - starting O is very efficient.  Bryce looks crips.  Improved routes.  OL is generating great push.  D gets 2 3rd and outs.  Then in the second half featuring 3rd stringers, the Panthers lose in an ugly game of football. 

B is the actual win. A is the win on the scoreboard. 

Which one is preferred? The answer is 100% B.  THAT is the point. 

 

The huddle isn't ready for such complex yet obvious concepts.