Josina Anderson: Panthers NOT trading Adam Thielen

[jb2288]

3 minutes ago, frankw said:

The woe is me everything but Bryce sucks mantra is stale af my friend.

Look nobody here is going to argue with the fact Frank Reich was not a good head coach. At the same time. Bryce Young is now in his second season with his second coaching staff and a handpicked young offensive head coach who has been known for working with QB's such as Baker and Geno. As far as the offensive pieces around Bryce we have the 4th highest salary cap allocation (that might be even higher now after the new Moton deal) dedicated to the OL in the entire league. We have 2 first round WR's one of them 8th overall the first time we've ever selected a WR that high in franchise history. And the fact of the matter is Bryce Young did not have a good preseason. It's not the first time it's happened either. We all hope to see he and the rest of the team flip a switch in week 1. But we should all be able to agree that the offensive performances we've seen from the entire QB room (Bryce included) in preseason was simply unacceptable.

I mean, no I’m not going to panic when he got 2 Qs and looked great in 1 and looked not great in another (let’s not mention the drop). 
 

Yeah we finally have a team that would be considered average offensively around him. Let’s roll this season. 

[carpanfan96]

1 hour ago, jb2288 said:

So why couldn’t Chark or Hurst get open with Herbert? Why couldn’t Mingo get open with Dak? 
 

I don’t know why I’m even arguing with someone who doesn’t think Reich was a bad coach, I need to get out more. 

Reich was bad for what the Panthers owners wanted. We will never know if he was allowed to run his system with the QB he wanted what that would look like. 

[ForJimmy]

21 minutes ago, CRA said:

Correct.  It’s really hard to get open in the NFL when opposing defenses gameplan and cheat coverage/routes on all your players because they know your QB can’t make certain throws/plays.  

magically no one that comes to Carolina can get open or make plays with the ball in their hands…..it’s like there is one singular common dominator to it all.  BY makes playing defense way too easy.   NFL players are too good to allow one side to cheat coverage and not respect all the potential threats of a route 

so you can dial up a great play.  But if corners and safeties just cheat coverage and know X and Y happening on route/threats….getting open gets hard when they just play it one way.  Getting open has a lot to do with the different threats a WR can pose on a given play.  

If safeties are playing in the box and cheating getting open is harder? The ball doesn’t have to be thrown their way for the separation stat to take place. You still send your deep threat (I’m assuming this was Chark) deep and if no one is covering it because they don’t fear the QB’s arm Chark’s separation yardage goes way up. 
The second hole in your theory is different WRs magically got separation this past year with Bryce still at QB. Hmm so the same QB with more film on him and new weapons are now getting more separation. How does this happen? Well you have a new offensive system with better weapons. The QB would be the common variable here. 
Once again 2023’s offense was just all around awful. You have even said you don’t even count it as Bryce’s rookie year because it was so bad. I’ve seen you post 2024 was basically Bryce’s rookie year. 

[frankw]

18 minutes ago, jb2288 said:

I mean, no I’m not going to panic when he got 2 Qs and looked great in 1 and looked not great in another (let’s not mention the drop). 
 

Yeah we finally have a team that would be considered average offensively around him. Let’s roll this season. 

Can't help but notice you made it a point to fully throw our young TE under the bus for the drop but omitted the overthrow for a first down and Bryce panicking and moving himself into a sack in a play that honestly was extremely concerning for a third year QB who made instances like that all too common in the past. And that's not even mentioning a poorly thrown ball (penalty or no penalty) in the vicinity of a WR flanked by three defenders. It was very discouraging.

Edited 5 hours ago by frankw

[CRA]

47 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

The second hole in your theory is different WRs magically got separation this past year with Bryce still at QB. Hmm so the same QB with more film on him and new weapons are now getting more separation. 

They weren’t getting open.  

ESPN analytics grades 159 receiving options getting open in 2024

159 - Tremble

148 - Saunders

148 - Moore 

126 - Coker

108 - Leggette

92 - Theilen 

our shining star getting open was AT ranked at number #92 in the NFL

 

 

 

[carpanfan96]

2 minutes ago, CRA said:

They weren’t getting open.  

ESPN analytics grades 159 receiving options getting open in 2024

159 - Tremble

148 - Saunders

148 - Moore 

126 - Coker

108 - Leggette

92 - Theilen 

out shining star getting open was AT ranked at number #92 in the NFL

 

 

 

Even Tmac isn't known for separation. Horn jr or Coker are the two fastest WR probably and one isn't likely to see any time at all and the other is the fourth WR on the depth chart. 

[jb2288]

15 minutes ago, frankw said:

Can't help but notice you made it a point to fully throw our young TE under the bus for the drop but omitted the overthrow for a first down and Bryce panicking and moving himself into a sack in a play that honestly was extremely concerning for a third year QB who made instances like that all too common in the past. And that's not even mentioning a poorly thrown ball (penalty or no penalty) in the vicinity of a WR flanked by three defenders. It was very discouraging.

I didn’t throw anyone under the bus. It’s a fact. it happened. That can be true while also stating I won’t be overreacting about it, as I did. 

[jfra78]

11 minutes ago, carpanfan96 said:

Even Tmac isn't known for separation. Horn jr or Coker are the two fastest WR probably and one isn't likely to see any time at all and the other is the fourth WR on the depth chart. 

Is that seperstion even when the ball isnt thrown their way?

[frankw]

1 minute ago, jb2288 said:

I didn’t throw anyone under the bus. It’s a fact. it happened. That can be true while also stating I won’t be overreacting about it, as I did. 

Welp. Let's just agree that we hope this Panthers team comes out swinging in Jacksonville here in a few weeks. Because if they lay a big egg early to start the season again they deserve any and all criticism.

[CRA]

23 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

Is that seperstion even when the ball isnt thrown their way?

every route run 

https://espnanalytics.com/receivers
 

you can sort by open, YAC and catch ratings by next gen.  WRs don’t get open and there is no YAC on this team.   Some of its players.  Some is scheme.  Some is Bryce. 

*YAC sorts pretty similar to OPEN with Coker being the anomaly.  Gotta think that one might be skewed with that huge busted coverage play he had which is a massive % of his YAC on the year 

[ForJimmy]

11 minutes ago, CRA said:

They weren’t getting open.  

ESPN analytics grades 159 receiving options getting open in 2024

159 - Tremble

148 - Saunders

148 - Moore 

126 - Coker

108 - Leggette

92 - Theilen 

out shining star getting open was AT ranked at number #92 in the NFL

 

 

 

PFF had both Coker and XL as middle of the pack. I do think their metric is only looking at caught passes though. 
Also if you look at the actual rating, Mingo and Chark are in the 20s in 2023 with Coker and XL in the 40s in 2024.
Another interesting stat is 24 Mingo stays in the 20s despite changing teams away from Bryce? Shouldn’t he move up quite a bit on a new team where defenses are having to respect the QB? 
You also left out Diontae Johnson at 37 in 2024. 7 games for us and 5 for other teams with very limited stats (looks like 3 catches total say from us). How could he possibly be at 37 with defenses stacking the box making it impossible to get open? Maybe it’s the actual receivers not getting open and not defenses cheating coverage?

[ForJimmy]

23 minutes ago, CRA said:

every route run 

https://espnanalytics.com/receivers
 

you can sort by open, YAC and catch ratings by next gen.  WRs don’t get open and there is no YAC on this team.   Some of its players.  Some is scheme.  Some is Bryce. 

*YAC sorts pretty similar to OPEN with Coker being the anomaly.  Gotta think that one might be skewed with that huge busted coverage play he had which is a massive % of his YAC on the year 

Check out our boy Coker with the 23 ranking in Overall Ranking!

[carpanfan96]

1 hour ago, jfra78 said:

Is that seperstion even when the ball isnt thrown their way?

Yes. Separation statistics count every snap. 

[WhoKnows]

9 hours ago, Icege said:

WR: Nico, Woods, Tank (R)
TE: Schultz
OL: Tunsil/Howard/Deiter/Mason/Fant

vs.

WR: Chark, Thielen, Mingo (R)
TE: Hurst
OL: Icky/Zavala (R)/Bozeman/Jensen (R)/Moton

 

Panthers' had the better OL before losing BC week 1 and AC week 4 which is kind of ironic considering how in the following year DB went down in W1 and Shaq in W4 resulting in the defense going all to Hell.

CJ has done amazing in Houston, but he also wasn't asked to carry Zavala, Jensen, Mingo, Hurst, and Chark as a rookie. Him and Bryce both got their vets (Woods/Thielen), but their WR1s (Nico vs. Chark) and rookie WRs (Tank vs. Mingo) couldn't have been further apart.

Woods has had 600 yards in 2 years with Stroud. He's done. Collins blew up with Stroud and had a ton more everything in Stroud’s rookie year than he did in his first two years combined. Mingo sucks but his rookie season was about the same as Collins.

The Texans won 10 games with rookie Stroud. They won 11 total games in the 3 years prior. They had a poo roster before the 2023 draft. The Panthers had a better team before the 2023 draft.

That was my point that Stroud (and Anderson) jumped the Texans to another level. No one thought of Nico Collins as a stud before Stroud. They were one of the worst teams in the league from 2020-2022. We won 6 more games over the same time period.