Josina Anderson: Panthers NOT trading Adam Thielen

[Icege]

13 hours ago, CRA said:

Part of the reason no one wasn’t getting open is because of BY.  That’s generally gets omitted.  His part in the why.  

if you don’t have to respect different areas of the field and throws….you get to cheat coverage on plays and routes as a defense/defender.   Getting open gets much harder.   

and I referenced it earlier, best offensive day of that season was the one game Young didn’t play and washed up Dalton took the field 

it’s always everyone else.  Frank Reich tried all he could.  But Frank is a generic NFL HC.  And he is not a bad HC.  BY doesn’t do the basics at a high enough level because of his tools….not just lack of experience.   So if things aren’t great, it will go bad with BY.   And if the table ever gets set for REALLY good….you likely won’t see that either with BY. 

only Bryce is going to change my opinion at this stage.  Not his believers 

How in the world are folks not getting open because of Bryce when he was sacked for what was then the 2nd most times a rookie QB had been sacked (until Caleb Williams)? He got sacked 50+ times behind a 6th and 7th string guard duo.

Dalton played one good game against the RAIDERS? The same Andy Dalton that people are ready to take out behind the barn and put down so that they can have a UDFA QB in the room that won't be on a roster next season? I get that Aidan O'Connell is some Huddlers' favorite QB, but Jesus...

Again: What is the acceptable floor for a rookie QB with 6th & 7th string starting guards, a group of weapons where the only player getting open is 33yrs old, and the coaching staff switched the offense up three times in their first year? Why is it that I keep getting excuses instead of numbers in response to that?

Edited 5 hours ago by Icege

[CRA]

11 hours ago, ForJimmy said:

Another interesting stat is 24 Mingo stays in the 20s despite changing teams away from Bryce? Shouldn’t he move up quite a bit on a new team where defenses are having to respect the QB? 
You also left out Diontae Johnson at 37 in 2024. 7 games for us and 5 for other teams with very limited stats (looks like 3 catches total say from us). How could he possibly be at 37 with defenses stacking the box making it impossible to get open? Maybe it’s the actual receivers not getting open and not defenses cheating coverage?

I didn’t intentionally leave them out (frankly, I forgot about them).  Mingo was a bad WR that was traded in season to be depth on a team (without Dak).  Not sure that makes any point.  

I’ll give you Dionte Johnson as the actual outlier to my point. But that’s what he is. 

But what’s the more reasonable argument?  That it’s all the WRs.  Essentially every single one of vastly different skill sets?

Or it’s more the QB and the O scheme?  And how Ds play Bryce in it. 

[CRA]

1 hour ago, Icege said:

How in the world are folks not getting open because of Bryce when he was sacked for what was then the 2nd most times a rookie QB had been sacked (until Caleb Williams)? He got sacked 50+ times behind a 6th and 7th string guard duo.

Dalton played one good game against the RAIDERS? The same Andy Dalton that people are ready to take out behind the barn and put down so that they can have a UDFA QB in the room that won't be on a roster next season? I get that Aidan O'Connell is some Huddlers' favorite QB, but Jesus...

Again: What is the acceptable floor for a rookie QB with 6th & 7th string starting guards, a group of weapons where the only player getting open is 33yrs old, and the coaching staff switched the offense up three times in their first year? Why is it that I keep getting excuses instead of numbers in response to that?

Well, you just look to the next season where Carolina had the most expensive OL in all the NFL…..and I shared with the analytics where the exact same open and yac issues exist there.  And he didn’t have 19th string OGs, he had great OGs that suited up all year. 

I just don’t get why people are dug into over defense of BY.  We know he doesn’t have great physical tools.  We know he can’t make all the throws.  And that is going to lower the ceiling/potential and we know defenses adjust when a QB can’t hit all the throws on the field.  He isn’t going to grow a new body/arm.  So for me, he is just our QB for now at this point.  I’ll pull for him.  But I’ll view him like every other player in the big picture people (Bryce defenders) are cool with replacing and upgrading.   And then I favor the growth of bigger picture players (which is why I am done with AT).   Biggest issue probably is some think this is a team that is about to compete and I view it as a development team 

 

[ForJimmy]

1 hour ago, CRA said:

I didn’t intentionally leave them out (frankly, I forgot about them).  Mingo was a bad WR that was traded in season to be depth on a team (without Dak).  Not sure that makes any point.  

I’ll give you Dionte Johnson as the actual outlier to my point. But that’s what he is. 

But what’s the more reasonable argument?  That it’s all the WRs.  Essentially every single one of vastly different skill sets?

Or it’s more the QB and the O scheme?  And how Ds play Bryce in it. 

I mean you are only talking about what 6-7 total players and one is an outlier and one is just bad. It just so happens that the only two with snaps on other teams have excuses? Diontae was good at getting separation before he got here and he was still good at it in our system, Mingo was bad at it and was still bad when he went somewhere else. It’s the only data we have on these players in different systems and both show it’s not just our system causing the separation issues. 

[Icege]

Some people will really look at stuff like this and say "no more excuses" but then make excuses to try and explain away the validity of big-time throws. 

 

Back on topic though, as I mentioned in the other AT thread earlier, I hope that the team is still exploring the deal.

If the Vikings want the Panthers to take on some of the salary, then it had better be at worst a 4th-round pick (though I imagine Dan angling for a 3rd). If they're willing to take on all of it, then maybe at worst a 5th. Tough pill to swallow, giving up a 4th for a 35yr old WR, but if MIN believes they can have similar success behind McCarthy then it could be a smart deal for them. Hell, if AT has any gas in the tank and gives them a 1yr sweetheart deal to close out at home, even better for Minnesota.

Yea, Bryce loses his best and most reliable WR. Hunter Renfrow though isn't what I would call a huge step down though (if he's as advertised throughout camp), and it gives more reps to TMac + XL + Coker. This season is all about continued development and answering some of the looming questions (Is Bryce the guy? Is Evero the DC going fwd? How do the young WRs develop? How long does it take this defense to bounce back from being historically awful?).

[jfra78]

4 minutes ago, Icege said:

Some people will really look at stuff like this and say "no more excuses" but then make excuses to try and explain away the validity of big-time throws. 

 

Back on topic though, as I mentioned in the other AT thread earlier, I hope that the team is still exploring the deal.

If the Vikings want the Panthers to take on some of the salary, then it had better be at worst a 4th-round pick (though I imagine Dan angling for a 3rd). If they're willing to take on all of it, then maybe at worst a 5th. Tough pill to swallow, giving up a 4th for a 35yr old WR, but if MIN believes they can have similar success behind McCarthy then it could be a smart deal for them. Hell, if AT has any gas in the tank and gives them a 1yr sweetheart deal to close out at home, even better for Minnesota.

Yea, Bryce loses his best and most reliable WR. Hunter Renfrow though isn't what I would call a huge step down though (if he's as advertised throughout camp), and it gives more reps to TMac + XL + Coker. This season is all about continued development and answering some of the looming questions (Is Bryce the guy? Is Evero the DC going fwd? How do the young WRs develop? How long does it take this defense to bounce back from being historically awful?).

I'm just tired of ppl saying he's so accurate and then have to see recievers slow down to recieve the ball, ruining any chance at YAC

[TheSpecialJuan]

Would hate for Bryce to lose Adam.

https://x.com/danorlovsky7/status/1959626900113957360?s=46&t=xeIgh_-Vr2aKxBkBJdfnKA