Observer Projections / *Updated Panthers Waiver Additions

[CRA]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I honestly don't think that was as true as most believed. Cam was a very efficient passer in Norv's system and again in his year in NE. I think we hurt him in his development and as an overall QB trying to tailor TOO much to his unique talents. The read option should've always remained a staple, but after year two the passing game should've evolved into a more typical modern day NFL passing offense vs. an obsession with chunk play deep ball setups.

Norv's "efficient" Cam was my least favorite Cam.   CMC got 100+ balls both those seasons and it was way to much just checking down to CMC for me. 

Depends who my QB is.  Efficient just wasn't what I was fixated on with Cam.  Tailoring to Cam allowed Cam to be special.  It was fun.  Best time to be a Panther fan.  

 

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, CRA said:

Norv's "efficient" Cam was my least favorite Cam.   CMC got 100+ balls both those seasons and it was way to much just checking down to CMC for me. 

Depends who my QB is.  Efficient just wasn't what I was fixated on with Cam.  Tailoring to Cam allowed Cam to be special.  It was fun.  Best time to be a Panther fan.  

 

Cam had lost his ability to throw deep from the shoulder injuries and CMC was really the only receiver we had on the roster who fit what we had to tailor our offense to in order to adapt to Cam's new arm. We'd built an offense around running the ball and downfield passing.

A better coaching staff would've been evolving the passing game to be more balanced but we had a pretty limited offensive coaching staff and they had a cheat code at QB.

[SmokinwithWilly]

37 minutes ago, CRA said:

From day 1, I have maintained the Panthers org has screwed Bryce Young and set him up for failure.    People got mad that I was insulting Frank Reich and that super team.  Some folks in this very thread were lecturing me very hard about how wrong I was going into that Frank season.  

and I have said the same thing about attempt #2 from day 1.  The org is setting Bryce Young for failure. And just like the Frank Reich era, people get mad about me saying he doesn't fit what Canales does and wants from his QB.

So....yeah, I disagree with your framing there.  I have pinned most of the blame on Carolina.  Not Bryce Young.  

That's why I never understood the Bryce pick for Frank. He never fit a Reich offense. Stroud was far more of a fit for Frank than Bryce ever was. Thats why I always thought Bryce was a Dave/Nicole pick instead of a coaches pick. It never made sense from a scheme perspective. 

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

That's why I never understood the Bryce pick for Frank. He never fit a Reich offense. Stroud was far more of a fit for Frank than Bryce ever was. Thats why I always thought Bryce was a Dave/Nicole pick instead of a coaches pick. It never made sense from a scheme perspective. 

It really seemed to me that the wind went out of Frank's sails when it became obvious we were drafting Bryce. Bryce didn't fit his system and he knew it. I don't know if we led him to believe he'd have more input on the QB decision or if he just thought he'd be able to get in the room and be more convincing, but either way that was a combo that was never gonna work out.

[CRA]

4 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

You have never liked him and trash him at every turn. His rookie year you might have been right but blamed him instead of the terrible offensive line and no receivers to help. Last year with an improved line and better weapons things turned around when he returned from being benched. 

https://www.si.com/nfl/panthers/news/new-stat-panthers-qb-bryce-young-immense-talent-clearer#:~:text=Zach Roberts | May 20%2C 2025&text=Bryce Young broke out last,yards without pressure in 2024.&text=When throwing deep%2C which is,be 13th in the NFL.

His deep ball was ranked 10th among all QBs with and without pressure.

PFF said his deep ball performance was the best in the league week 12 against KC who ended up in the superbowl.

Truth is he has made huge improvements and with his improved receiver corps and consistent offensive line he will be better this year. His deep ball at Alabama was very good so it isn't like this is a shock. You need to allow facts to inform you instead of forming an opinion which you hold onto regardless of reality.

 

I don't like round pegs and square holes.  I can be find with either.  You just have to pick one.  It's been that simple from the start.  Carolina remains in the round peg/square hole phase of life. 

again, you are fixated like most Bryce supporters on how passes are graded.  Again, Teddy Bridgewater can grade well on the deep passes overall he happens to make.   If he grades well on those select passes.....that doesn't somehow magically mean he isn't checking down out there is isn't pulling trigger when he needs to.  The well graded deep pass doesn't make Teddy a gunslinging chunk passer playing the way a scheme would need him to. They remain two different things.

his deep ball at Bama wasn't good.  That's not my soapbox but you can find threads on that too where that he been discussed in detail.  He just could just make off target throws to wide open dudes.  

 

 

[XClown1986]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

because scheme, fit and what you ask of different players matter in the NFL.  It's more important than talent.  

Peyton Manning and Cam Newton can both be great.  But you can put Cam in scenarios/schemes where he would suck.  Same for Peyton.  I mean, if Washington asked Daniels to run what Joe Flacco did his last year in Clev.....it doesn't go as well for Daniels last year.  If you asked Joe Flacco to run what Daniels did it doesn't work. 

I have been consistent, if you were going to draft a unicorn then go all in on that and give it a go.   It's why I compared Bryce to Cam.  It had to be a Bryce centric O and not inserting him into old man football.  Cam needed a Cam tailored O.  And if you are going to run these old schemes and play....then don't waste our time w/ Bryce.  

 

I understand that scheme matters, however, Cam did get put into a system that people suggested was a poor fit and they were wrong. Norv Turner had a type and always valued a pocket passer, which wasn't Cam. I remember people being worried that Norv would take away Cam's strengths, or that Cam wasn't a naturally accurate passer so he would struggle to run Norv's offense, etc. But both player and coach adapted. And Cam played well and posted career highs in completed passes and completion percentage. So it is difficult for me to look at a young coach and QB pairing and just suggest "it can't work." If they want it to, it can.

Even Canales said it took him and Bryce getting to know each other more and what plays they liked to run and how they could make plays work and expand on that. So you may have a point that Canales was simply trying to run his offense at the beginning of the season and it wasn't working, but there is also evidence to show that Canales is willing to adapt the offense because of how different the results were later. The video that was posted a little while back talked about how Canales tried to run more plays bunched around Bryce to offer more protection, but what Bryce needed was more options to throw to, so we started running a lot more empty sets and Bryce started succeeding. It's stuff like that that shows that this is evolving in the right way.

[WUnderhill]

People seem to forget a lot about Cam. He had a big arm but was not good at touch passes or leading his receivers. He was one of the worst screen pass throwers I’ve ever seen and never seemed to get the hang of the touch needed. He was notorious for overthrowing receivers. His best year as a deep ball thrower was his rookie year, imo, and then he seemed to get less accurate with it. Overthrew wide open Ted Ginn plenty. This is all pre shoulder issues. Don’t get me wrong, Cam was special and I was one of his biggest defenders, but he left a lot to be desired as a passer. We drafted big receivers so it was harder for him to overthrow them. For years we all lamented how our receivers didn’t have much opportunity for yac because Cam just rifled the passes to wherever the receiver was at the time. He was the antithesis of an anticipation thrower.

[PleaseCutStewart]

35 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

That's why I never understood the Bryce pick for Frank. He never fit a Reich offense. Stroud was far more of a fit for Frank than Bryce ever was. Thats why I always thought Bryce was a Dave/Nicole pick instead of a coaches pick. It never made sense from a scheme perspective. 

Easy - because Frank didn't have a choice. Tepper 100% wanted Bryce and that was never going to change. The better question is why did Tepper hire Frank knowing Bryce was not fit for his system

[LinvilleGorge]

23 minutes ago, CRA said:

I don't like round pegs and square holes.  I can be find with either.  You just have to pick one.  It's been that simple from the start.  Carolina remains in the round peg/square hole phase of life. 

again, you are fixated like most Bryce supporters on how passes are graded.  Again, Teddy Bridgewater can grade well on the deep passes overall he happens to make.   If he grades well on those select passes.....that doesn't somehow magically mean he isn't checking down out there is isn't pulling trigger when he needs to.  The well graded deep pass doesn't make Teddy a gunslinging chunk passer playing the way a scheme would need him to. They remain two different things.

his deep ball at Bama wasn't good.  That's not my soapbox but you can find threads on that too where that he been discussed in detail.  He just could just make off target throws to wide open dudes.  

 

 

This was my big concern about Bryce in terms of his actual play, not regarding his measurables/pure talent level concerns.

Watching him play at Bama he was throwing to a lot of wide ass open receivers. I just didn't see a lot in his play that I could take and directly translate onto an NFL field. It really seemed all the analysts fell into a deep group think echo chamber and convinced themselves that this QB savant was going to overcome all of his physical talent shortcomings simply by being so brilliant. I've never seen such a physically limited QB prospect completely dupe the football world and it baffled me at the time and still baffles me today. All the struggles we've seen from Bryce in the NFL seemed very predictable based on his college play. 

[panthers55]

37 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

That's why I never understood the Bryce pick for Frank. He never fit a Reich offense. Stroud was far more of a fit for Frank than Bryce ever was. Thats why I always thought Bryce was a Dave/Nicole pick instead of a coaches pick. It never made sense from a scheme perspective. 

Great coaches adapt their scheme to the personnel they have instead of trying to force players into a scheme that doesn't evolve.

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, PleaseCutStewart said:

Easy - because Frank didn't have a choice. Tepper 100% wanted Bryce and that was never going to change. The better question is why did Tepper hire Frank knowing Bryce was not fit for his system

Not sure if Tepper even considered that to be honest. I think when Rhule flopped hard as a guy with no NFL experience Tepper history instinctively went with the exact opposite approach with Frank and crew and went with guys with tons of NFL experience and since he knew he wanted a QB in the draft he went with a guy who was a former QB and had a reputation of being a good QB coach. I honestly don't know if there was anymore in-depth analysis on the fit than that.

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Great coaches adapt their scheme to the personnel they have instead of trying to force players into a scheme that doesn't evolve.

True. But how many "great" coaches are there? Most are just good. If you give them the right players to fit their system they can produce good results but if you don't they're cooked. There's not many guys out there who truly have the ability to coach to the talent they're given and the Panthers have definitely never had any.

[XClown1986]

4 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Not sure if Tepper even considered that to be honest. I think when Rhule flopped hard as a guy with no NFL experience Tepper history instinctively went with the exact opposite approach with Frank and crew and went with guys with tons of NFL experience and since he knew he wanted a QB in the draft he went with a guy who was a former QB and had a reputation of being a good QB coach. I honestly don't know if there was anymore in-depth analysis on the fit than that.

It was discussed in detail at the time that the selling point of Frank Reich being hired was more about the "great coaching staff" he could bring with him. I don't think Tepper really saw Frank as the "head coach" so much as the lynchpin connecting the team to a wealth of coaching minds. Which turned out to be fool's gold and Tepper looked ridiculous because of it. 

[PleaseCutStewart]

11 minutes ago, WUnderhill said:

People seem to forget a lot about Cam. He had a big arm but was not good at touch passes or leading his receivers. He was one of the worst screen pass throwers I’ve ever seen and never seemed to get the hang of the touch needed. He was notorious for overthrowing receivers. His best year as a deep ball thrower was his rookie year, imo, and then he seemed to get less accurate with it. Overthrew wide open Ted Ginn plenty. This is all pre shoulder issues. Don’t get me wrong, Cam was special and I was one of his biggest defenders, but he left a lot to be desired as a passer. We drafted big receivers so it was harder for him to overthrow them. For years we all lamented how our receivers didn’t have much opportunity for yac because Cam just rifled the passes to wherever the receiver was at the time. He was the antithesis of an anticipation thrower.

Love Cam, but this statement right here resonates with me. The amount of times Cam would overthrow a RB on a swing pass, many times because he wanted to torpedo it in there instead of just lofting it, always drove me insane.

In terms of the deep ball - we didn't have a legit deep ball threat after Smitty left for Baltimore - sorry, Tedd Ginn just running deep every play and having no other route he could run doesn't count. Didn't help we went from Chudz, a vertical passing playbook (think he ran some time of Air Coryell offense), to Mike "run, run, pass, punt" Shula. Cam did look good under Norv (Air Coryell again) and finally had a deep ball threat (DJ) until his shoulder died. After that, he couldn't really throw the ball beyond 20 yards.

I actually thought Cam threw deep balls pretty well - it was the 15ish yard routes (which wouldn't have been that bad if we didn't have so many stone hands receivers) and the RB screen/swing passes that he struggled with IMO.