Hey You, You Don't Know Quarterbacking

[strato]

27 minutes ago, davos said:

I miss the old huddle soooo much, it was so heartwarming and amazing and loving and caring and everything you want in an internet message board.  No one was vitriolic, trolling, spammy, or as$holes.  

I'd love to know TheRealDeal's take these days. Bwood. Chuck. 

True old days scholars 

The debates about QBing in this era where we haven't found a QB in 9 years just upset me too much and makes me really dislike the message board. People are so aggressive at one another. Yuck.  

When there's a nice attempt at a thread to generate conversation, well, those people don't know sh*t.  They're all idiots and we have to tell them they're all idiots.

These are the important things.

I was on the old Charlotte.com board and a lot of people here had been on there.

I looked at this board and probably made a couple of posts here and there but mostly lurked. 

Peoples’ perceptions of a thing sure can vary. What I remember isn’t that different from today, but you have to take into account the years of uninterrupted misery people have endured.. it sours you. So stuff is a little more volatile now, we were in a much better place as a team back then. Down years not down decades. People were happier. 

[ChibCU]

43 minutes ago, raleigh-panther said:

 

No one on here wants him to fail.  

 

Agreed with all but this line. There are those who have their predictive beliefs and what reality to play out in perfect alignment. 

[CRA]

12 minutes ago, KSpan said:

Exactly. Folks are waxing nostalgic  

I will die on that hill more so than Bryce Young being bad.  

and in reality, given how unproductive the Bryce Panthers have been, the chances he has gotten, the cost, etc of Bryce Young?  Bryce really doesn't even get it that bad.   Wish we had access to old Clausen threads.  Tommy Jone Jake threads.  Heck, Matt Moore threads.    The huddle isn't worse today. 

The Tepper biggest difference is.....the Panthers just have never given us a break from the losing.  So there is no swing.   

[mav1234]

7 minutes ago, cranky said:

Hate to tell you but the haters are gonna hate around here. No amount of logic or facts will change that. They never wanted him and will gladly watch the Panthers go down in flames to prove they are right. 

I don't think this is true. Certainly as someone people call a hater frequently, I would like nothing more than for BY to be our long term answer at QB.  I just haven't seen that yet.

I think most posters are actually quite in a similar place with BY - haven't seen enough yet and hope he shows us something this year. It's just a difference on what they think of his existing play to date, how much of it is his fault, etc.

[mav1234]

Just now, CRA said:

I will die on that hill more so than Bryce Young being bad.  

and in reality, given how unproductive the Bryce Panthers have been, the chances he has gotten, the cost, etc of Bryce Young?  Bryce really doesn't even get it that bad.   Wish we had access to old Clausen threads.  Tommy Jone Jake threads.  Heck, Matt Moore threads.    The huddle isn't worse today.  The Tepper Panthers just have never given us a break from the losing. 

The Huddle has been worse absolutely but it also had more quality regular posters back then. I mean some of the most toxic threads were about Cam pre 2015 and circa 2017. Legitimate racist poo that mods had to periodically clean out (as I'm sure you remember heh).  The old days had some great posters but it also had some really bad stuff.  We also had weird characters, relatives, players posting, etc. Before social media became quite what it is now, the Huddle was a wild place.

[KSpan]

9 hours ago, fieryprophet said:

What's up gents, the OGs remember me, the guy who single-handedly gave the Panthers the greatest uniform in history moniker. Not too long after that I got involved with Pro Football Focus (pre-Collinsworth acquisition) and ended up taking backseat here to preserve some objectivity. But from a distance I noticed a lot.

After the end of the Cam era this place devolved into the most un-fun, petty, negative cesspool of whining and bitching that has ever graced the internet. The worst part of it all is that the level of discussion turned into the most ill-informed, hot-take, unnuanced crap, rife with people talking out of their posteriors as if they have any clue about what they are watching. Once you get into the professional side of the sport and actual film rooms, you start to understand there's an absurd number of moving parts to pretty much every snap and the details you are privy to are truly only half the picture.

The absolute most important thing I learned from being part of professional level football analysis is that quarterbacking is literally the most intricate and difficult position in all of professional sports, and that the NFL itself is struggling to develop any workable model that allows them to understand what makes one succeed vs what makes one fail. Because of this paradox it has also made the quarterback position itself grossly overvalued from a fan and media standpoint, creating an absurd fixation on the results delivered by a single player who has to rely on the contributions of everyone around them. This also drives the dreaded inflation of QB salaries that inevitably cause even elite teams to lose key talent all to pour cash into the one player supposed to be able to single-handedly elevate the entire team (and defense and special teams and coaching and ownership by some mysterious proxy), yet without those same players even talented teams can wander the wilderness searching for the right guy to take advantage of their talent window.

The discussions the last few years around Bryce has personified this insanity, as this board has devolved into some sort of electronic civil war between the hyperbolic Young supporters and the vitriolic Bryce haters. The reality, like practically everything in this world, is somewhere in the middle. He has traits that can absolutely elevate a team with creativity, play recognition, off-arm angle throws, mental toughness, etc. He's also physically limited, with mostly "good-enough" qualities for most situations that a professional quarterback is asked to do, and will never be an overpowering physical force like pre-injury Cam. But "good-enough" physicality represents a large majority of championship-winning quarterbacks, even in the modern era. There's a reason the corpse of Peyton Manning took the chip from elite physical specimen Cam, because the team surrounding him was talented enough to get him there, while we all know Cam was the driving force of that 2015 team. That's no knock on him, that's just how the game of football tends to work: the more complete team usually wins.

The summary is this: if this team lives or dies solely on the performance of its quarterback, then it is absolutely a paper tiger even if he plays brilliantly week in and out. There are no superheroes in this sport, there are only conduits that proxy the collective efforts of much of the team around them. And no one alive can tell you how the position is played perfectly, it's all a confluence of circumstance and what unique collection of traits each player brings to the position, which can never be truly recreated season after season, even for the same player on the same team.

If this place remains a raging hellscape of idiotic hot takes I will happily remove myself again and do something more productive for yet another decade, but maybe's there hope that we can all get back to the old adage, and keep pounding.

I'm sorry, but "good-enough" physicality absolutely does not represent majority of championship-winning QBs since the rules change in 2004 or so, which is all that is relevant in this conversation about the modern NFL. Unless you want to back that up with some actual data, such a comment in and of itself seems an idiotic hot take, to use your own words. There is a reason that the same elite QBs dominate for decades at a time and those guys are absolutely above average/top tier in terms of physical capabilities. even the one-offs like Flacco, Goff, and Stafford have at least one top-tier physical trait and it's typically arm strength.

Now, that doesn't mean that elite physical tools automatically equal championships. Absolutely not, and the guys that have the physical AND mental tools to set them apart are few and far between. But it does mean that a team has a dimension of capability that is a tangible advantage in today's NFL. I will die on the hill that Brees's lack of arm strength is a big reason why the Saints were never able to reliably get back over the hump for an entire decade despite racking up ludicrous regular season stats - they simply could not capitalize on that extra dimension, overcome adversity vs the highest competition, and exploit opportunities downfield that other QBs in similar circumstances could do. 

Edited 5 hours ago by KSpan

[strato]

3 hours ago, PootieNunu said:

It's funny how the teams with the great QBs stay at or near the top of the league every season. 

Yes it is a team game, but the QB has the biggest impact in most NFL football games. 

Why someone would leave a steaming pile on this post, I just don’t get. This is pretty mainstream thinking here. 
 

[Bear Hands]

Here's your old days.

Same stuff.  Criticizing how Zod manages, how everyone here is a pre-teen.  

We're all Peter Panned.  Locked in a self-cycling bubble.

[KSpan]

5 minutes ago, ChibCU said:

Agreed with all but this line. There are those who have their predictive beliefs and what reality to play out in perfect alignment. 

I daresay that for the vast majority, 'wanting him to fail' simply means that they've seen enough and want whatever needs to happen in order to move on... to happen. Few, if any, are actively rooting for him personally to suck. Bryce just happens to be the guy that currently hasn't gotten it done/shown it, like Darnold before him, and Teddy before him, etc.

[KSpan]

1 minute ago, Bear Hands said:

Here's your old days.

Same stuff.  Criticizing how Zod manages, how everyone here is a pre-teen.  

We're all Peter Panned.  Locked in a self-cycling bubble.

Oh absolutely. The vitriol and melodrama back when Carolina lost to Buffalo in 2013, as one example, was over the top.

[SmokinwithWilly]

2 minutes ago, ChibCU said:

Agreed with all but this line. There are those who have their predictive beliefs and what reality to play out in perfect alignment. 

We dont want him to fail. We want him to succeed. We want him to be the franchise. We are fast approaching a critical point this offseason where we have to either extend him, decline or take his 5th year, or play him on his final year. Our FO has been very lazy about building anything behind him if he isnt the guy, to prevent us being forced to go QB in the 1st again. 

The way this whole situation has been handled from the trade, to the Teppers, to Reich, to the combine, etc has been ridiculous. 

[cranky]

Just now, mav1234 said:

I don't think this is true. Certainly as someone people call a hater frequently, I would like nothing more than for BY to be our long term answer at QB.  I just haven't seen that yet.

I think most posters are actually quite in a similar place with BY - haven't seen enough yet and hope he shows us something this year. It's just a difference on what they think of his existing play to date, how much of it is his fault, etc.

I can agree that not everyone who dilslikes him are not haters. But there are several around here who regardless of the topic, will somehow get a dig in on Young. Doesn't matter what the original topic is, they will somehow get around to blaming Bryce for it. 

We just had a great win and are at .500 for the first time in years and people are still making post disparaging Young. A few people around here just can't stand to see him succeed. They are welcome to their opinion - I just get tired of seeing them rag on him in every post. 

[kungfoodude]

16 minutes ago, strato said:

I was on the old Charlotte.com board and a lot of people here had been on there.

I looked at this board and probably made a couple of posts here and there but mostly lurked. 

Peoples’ perceptions of a thing sure can vary. What I remember isn’t that different from today, but you have to take into account the years of uninterrupted misery people have endured.. it sours you. So stuff is a little more volatile now, we were in a much better place as a team back then. Down years not down decades. People were happier. 

That extends to the general internet, as well. People are far nastier to each other online and IRL. Different times have fueled some of this as well as just the overwhelming angst the Tepper era has wrought. 

I mean, has everyone forgotten the highs of the early post-JR days? "Oh it's all going to change! No more NFL Shield at midfield! No more mom and pop BS!"

Whew....boy we all regret those statements, I am sure. 

The fanbase and our situation is a result of having the worst owner in the NFL. Ask Redskins fans about that.

The Bryce poo is just another in a long line of blunders we have made in the past decade. I remember insane vitriol directed at Cam that was WAAAAAY more toxic than anything lobbed at Bryce.

[CRA]

10 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

The Huddle has been worse absolutely but it also had more quality regular posters back then. I mean some of the most toxic threads were about Cam pre 2015 and circa 2017. Legitimate racist poo that mods had to periodically clean out (as I'm sure you remember heh).  The old days had some great posters but it also had some really bad stuff.  We also had weird characters, relatives, players posting, etc. Before social media became quite what it is now, the Huddle was a wild place.

hell, the huddle literally attacked, insulted, and ran Dan Morgan (a real live Panther trying to be involved) away back in the day (who was nothing but awesome here).  But some say those were the glory days and it's bad here because there is in-depth and persistent criticisms about Bryce Young's physical tools, ball placement, and throws and lack of production/success (and through all that, Bryce Young the human being is almost literally never attacked).