Joe Person: Ickey is expected to be extended, Mays is someone we want to keep long term, TE, LB and OLB are our biggest needs heading into the offseason

[kungfoodude]

9 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

I think the best way to make Bryce better is to make everyone around him better.  This is why I advocate for a stud (top 5, eventually) TE.  I mean, when we have been a good franchise, we have had a stud TE (Walls, Olsen) and ILB (Beason, Mills, Morgan, Luke, etc) so it is in our DNA.  Expect us to address these areas this year.  (An Olsen or Walls would help Bryce a lot).  In terms of productivity, I think we are going to work with XL for one more season and ride the TMac / Coker momentum.  Where else could we find a position to improve productivity?  TE.  A position that caters to Bryce's style and shortcomings, a stud TE gives him another weapon he has not had.

The Panthers run a lot of 2-TE sets (I have seen 3) and they have a blocker (Tremble) who is great in the run game, a balanced TE (Evans), and Sanders is supposed to be the pass-catching TE. He had 340 yards last season and he has about 170 this year.  If we are going to play around with XL for another season, it only makes up to add to Bryce's weapons in a way that does not put XL on the bench, basically ending his development. It makes sense to bring in a pass-catching dawg.  The way the offense is designed, I see carrying 4, but its not ideal.

Having said that, I mentioned Oregon's Sadiq in another thread, but I am starting to warm up to Vanderbilt's Stowers and, in the Olsen/Walls mold, I kinda like Endries from Texas.  Of course, Stowers is probably going in round 2 and Endries in 3 or later.

I still say, 5 months before the draft, that I would not be surprised if we take a TE very early.

I mean, but there is ample evidence that exists currently in the NFL and historically that if you have a talented or moderately talented team then one of the biggest upgrades you can make is at QB. It yields the biggest returns.

I don't think even Prime Greg Olsen is going to make Bryce suddenly look like a stud QB. We have invested immense amounts of money on the OL and tremendous amounts of draft resources on WR's. And have added an additional extremely capable RB.

At some point, the main problem is Bryce. We are at that point. 

That being said, we don't need to go "Full Bryce" again and sell the farm to upgrade at QB. Be intelligent and patient. Try to get better by whatever means become available WHILE continuing to make the roster better. At the bare minimum, you slowly build an upper half of the NFL talented roster that is at least a potential draw for some free agent QB's.

IMO, Bryce is clearly not the answer. I don't think anyone in our organization thinks that way but if they do, it's not the end of the world. Throw as many reasonable darts as you can through free agency and the draft until either you get a bullseye or a top 10-15 option becomes available in free agency.

[mrcompletely11]

9 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

IMO, Bryce is clearly not the answer. I don't think anyone in our organization thinks that way but if they do, it's not the end of the world. Throw as many reasonable darts as you can through free agency and the draft until either you get a bullseye or a top 10-15 option becomes available in free agency.

I bet you would be surprised at the answers if you gave the FO truth serum.  I mean for fugs sake if 85% of the huddle can see it, you mean to tell me professional football coaches and execs dont?  But as always Dave and nicole are the wild cards here.  If they want to give him an ext by God he is getting an ext and there is nothing Morgan and co can do.   Resigning in protest would be pretty funny actually

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

I bet you would be surprised at the answers if you gave the FO truth serum.  I mean for fugs sake if 85% of the huddle can see it, you mean to tell me professional football coaches and execs dont?  But as always Dave and nicole are the wild cards here.  If they want to give him an ext by God he is getting an ext and there is nothing Morgan and co can do.   Resigning in protest would be pretty funny actually

My ultimate GUESS is that the core decision makers are fairly aligned on thought process regarding Bryce. My take is that is largely dictated by the ownership and everyone else is just marching to the beat of that drum. 

I would be surprised if they are off the bandwagon yet. I think the improvements over last season for the team overall are going to drive decision making that leads us to staying committed to Bryce.

[mrcompletely11]

4 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

My ultimate GUESS is that the core decision makers are fairly aligned on thought process regarding Bryce. My take is that is largely dictated by the ownership and everyone else is just marching to the beat of that drum. 

I would be surprised if they are off the bandwagon yet. I think the improvements over last season for the team overall are going to drive decision making that leads us to staying committed to Bryce.

I dont doubt anything you said here.  Put as I have stated since this came up, if they pick up the 5th and thats it, then we are in uncharted waters for a top draft pick.  You can point to us picking up the 5th with darnold but thats different.  Teams normally dont navigate like this.   So they better have a damn good plan to figure this out.  

 

I would feel way more comfortable if they cut dalton, signed a dude, drafted a dude.  Do that then go from there.  Dont pick up the 5th until after the draft.  That seems logical.  But again, the fact that nobody from the press has even asked is fuging cowardly

[kungfoodude]

4 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

I dont doubt anything you said here.  Put as I have stated since this came up, if they pick up the 5th and thats it, then we are in uncharted waters for a top draft pick.  You can point to us picking up the 5th with darnold but thats different.  Teams normally dont navigate like this.   So they better have a damn good plan to figure this out.  

 

I would feel way more comfortable if they cut dalton, signed a dude, drafted a dude.  Do that then go from there.  Dont pick up the 5th until after the draft.  That seems logical.  But again, the fact that nobody from the press has even asked is fuging cowardly

I think ideally you make your decision early in the offseason. I say that so that we can attempt to move Bryce early while he still might have some minimal amount of value left(Rosen scenario). 

Alternatively, as you stated, see what happens in free agency and the draft, then decide to move him or not, which would likely be tied to that 5th year decision.

My take on how this ultimately goes is that we don't make a move at QB(we stay with Bryce/Dalton), we don't draft a QB and we pick up the 5th. No serious extension talks, though. I think they go partially in on Bryce but not all-in.

[TLGPanthersFan]

11 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

They believe Bryce is "ascending" per reports.

We'll find out if they're right or not.

Ascending from a backup QB to a slightly better backup QB is not ascending. Like I said our front office have done dumbass things before. 

[MHS831]

45 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I mean, but there is ample evidence that exists currently in the NFL and historically that if you have a talented or moderately talented team then one of the biggest upgrades you can make is at QB. It yields the biggest returns.

I don't think even Prime Greg Olsen is going to make Bryce suddenly look like a stud QB. We have invested immense amounts of money on the OL and tremendous amounts of draft resources on WR's. And have added an additional extremely capable RB.

At some point, the main problem is Bryce. We are at that point. 

That being said, we don't need to go "Full Bryce" again and sell the farm to upgrade at QB. Be intelligent and patient. Try to get better by whatever means become available WHILE continuing to make the roster better. At the bare minimum, you slowly build an upper half of the NFL talented roster that is at least a potential draw for some free agent QB's.

IMO, Bryce is clearly not the answer. I don't think anyone in our organization thinks that way but if they do, it's not the end of the world. Throw as many reasonable darts as you can through free agency and the draft until either you get a bullseye or a top 10-15 option becomes available in free agency.

Hey, brother, I agree with you.  I am just reading tea leaves and reacting to what they are likely to do.  I think we should be in the market until we have a top 10 QB.  Full stop.  However, since they seem hell bent on turning their hamster into a stallion, (and we have to consider Tepper's ego is in play here) I am starting from that position,  98.3% of the time, you and I are on the same page.  Seek help. 

Edited 1 hour ago by MHS831

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Hey, brother, I agree with you.  I am just reading tea leaves and reacting to what that might do.  I think we should be in the market until we have a top 10 QB.  Full stop.  However, since they seem hell bent on turning their hamster into a stallion, (and we have to consider Tepper's ego is in play here) I am starting from that position,  98.3% of the time, you and I are on the same page.  Seek help.

On the TE tip, that was why I was so perturbed about our decision to pass up on very good TE's several times in this past draft. This was a STACKED TE class. Guys like Fannin, Taylor, Gadsden, etc were serious needle movers(in my eyes) and they were a few of the guys that have provided instant impact, as well. 

I wasn't a big fan of the Evans pick and although he has drastically exceeded my expectations we did pass on a legit offensive weapon in Gadsden who is ehat we tried to get and largely have failed in Sanders.

Honestly, considering the early success for the 2025 class, I don't want to be too harsh but I am always annoyed that our FO never seems to take players at a position of need when the classes are very strong or definitely whiff on the better players(Evans/Etienne). It's absolutely mind boggling we keep doing it.

I am with you on upgrading at TE, though. Tremble is a fine player, I am happy to have him but he has probably come pretty close to what he is going to be. Sanders just doesn't appear to really have appreciably developed much. If he can't develop some overall consistency by the end of 2026 or make some step forward, I would classify him as largely a lost cause. Evans I have liked the potential of but he has played only 35% of the snaps on offense. I can't understand why he gets so many less snaps than a guy like Sanders. I know they are used differently but it isn't like Sanders is being targeted a ton. He has 30 targets compared to Evans 18 in WAY more snaps.

[SmokinwithWilly]

1 hour ago, mrcompletely11 said:

I dont doubt anything you said here.  Put as I have stated since this came up, if they pick up the 5th and thats it, then we are in uncharted waters for a top draft pick.  You can point to us picking up the 5th with darnold but thats different.  Teams normally dont navigate like this.   So they better have a damn good plan to figure this out.  

 

I would feel way more comfortable if they cut dalton, signed a dude, drafted a dude.  Do that then go from there.  Dont pick up the 5th until after the draft.  That seems logical.  But again, the fact that nobody from the press has even asked is fuging cowardly

I think the reason we immediately picked up Darnold's 5th was what we traded to get him and it wasn't reasonable to expect him to reach his potential on a new team in a new offense in a single season given where he was at in his career. I think 2 seasons was a reasonable expectation, especially given the fact he had been coached by Gase.