Why does Bryce get the blame?

[Mr. Scot]

10 minutes ago, strato said:

So yeah let’s blame a DC for failing to succeed after they pillaged your defense in every manner available to them to prop up their QB. For two hard years like scorched earth they tore that defense down and spent the proceeds on the offense. You know. Draft, cap, FA. Drained the defense. 
Whatever you think of Evero. Whoever the DC is. No one can compete with what they gave him. 
The whole organization should have been apologizing to him. 

I am no Evero homer but let’s be real. 

There are definite schematic issues with Evero, but that's not the point.

The point is Canales was willing to give him chances, and that even after a (historically) bad year.

Bryce, at least so far, is ending this season same as he did last year: trending up.

That tells me Canales is highly unlikely to move on from him.

[Mr. Scot]

5 minutes ago, carolinanimal said:

i just think that this offense directly shadows what Bryce is comfortable doing. thats why it looks like it does. A lot of throws to the outside of the wr route tree, the flat, comeback, out(sometimes) and the corner. this with rollouts is what i think he is most comfortable doing. The problem dave canales has is i dont think he is as comfortable or even good throwing the inside part of the wr route tree, the go, the post , the drag , the curl(50/50) or the slant (50/50). that eliminates a lot of possible plays. 

A lot of that is basic WCO, but I'm guessing you know that. 

Would add that I'd rather a coach adjust his schemes to fit the players anyway but that's a separate debate. 

[Mr. Scot]

11 minutes ago, CRA said:

All super cool.  Let’s stay on task here.  We talking Bryce Young and Dave Canales.  I know you don’t want to but I’m not going anywhere else with you at this point as has been told to you over and over.  

We are talking about Bryce, and have been. Specifically, your suggestion that he doesn't fit the scheme Canales runs.

And on that point, I accept your concession

Edited 12 hours ago by Mr. Scot

[carolinanimal]

11 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

A lot of that is basic WCO, but I'm guessing you know that. 

Would add that I'd rather a coach adjust his schemes to fit the players anyway but that's a separate debate. 

do you think you can run a successful offense with half the options gone?

[Mr. Scot]

9 minutes ago, carolinanimal said:

do you think you can run a successful offense with half the options gone?

Not really, but I'd say the WCO is a better fit for Bryce's skill set. Tough to picture him in a Coryell.

He's just not a good enough player ability-wise and  consistency-wise.

I think he'd make a great backup, but I seriously doubt there's any path to that destination. 

Edited 12 hours ago by Mr. Scot

[JawnyBlaze]

17 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Does Newton own his win-loss record, though?

Tying quarterbacks to their team's record is a complicated debate. Most football analysts would say it isn't fair, but on the flipside it's a very commonly used metric.

Ultimately, I'm comfortable looking at whether we win or lose with a certain QB, but I acknowledge the folks who don't think it's a fair way to judge a career. 

I despise try to attribute wins and losses to one person. It’s simplistic and a completely inaccurate way to evaluate a player. Our wins and losses aren’t on Bryce, just like that stupid “4th quarter comeback” stat isn’t relevant in any way.  Way too many factors to lay it all on one person, blame or credit.  

[Jacabee]

Frankly surprised by the amount of people that want to hang Evero. This was a defense that was almost universally considered the bottom of the barrel before this season started. We’ve managed to stat our way to the middle of the pack whatever that means.

Those critical of the zone schemes, what do you want? When even JC is getting burnt one on one by Olave you have little choice. There definitely have been moments where the zone blitz stuff has bit us. That said, are the third string linebackers (and nick Scott) covering poo anyway?

This unit had only conceded 10 points going into the fourth quarter despite a litany of bullshit penalties on both sides. Them over performing is the biggest reason we are still in playoff contention. 

[*FreeFua*]

1 hour ago, Jacabee said:

This unit had only conceded 10 points going into the fourth quarter despite a litany of bullshit penalties on both sides. Them over performing is the biggest reason we are still in playoff contention. 

I’ve seen a few people mention the fact NO only had 10 points going into the 4th as some sort of victory by the defense. 

I assume you’re box score watching?

The Saints had 4 real possessions going into the 4th quarter. One was the 11:22 minute TD drive and the other a 7:58 FG drive

According to nextgenstats there are normally 24 possessions in a game. There were 16 in Sundays game and that’s including a one play kneel down “possession” at the end of the first half and the final 1 play “possession” at the end of the game 

For comparison, there were 11 possessions in last nights Seahawks Rams game in the 4th quarter alone 

Edited 4 hours ago by *FreeFua*

[TLGPanthersFan]

9 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

There are definite schematic issues with Evero, but that's not the point.

The point is Canales was willing to give him chances, and that even after a (historically) bad year.

Bryce, at least so far, is ending this season same as he did last year: trending up.

That tells me Canales is highly unlikely to move on from him.

Bryce is not trending up. He is the same QB he has always been. Bottom of the league in most categories. 
If Canales thinks he can build a contender with Bryce then he is a bigger idiot then I thought. 
Offense next year will have the same issues and be just as inconsistent as it was this year. 
We have seen Bryce’a ceiling and it is 175 yards a game and that is not a QB you keep around as your starter. That is barely a backup. 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by TLGPanthersFan

[frankw]

33 minutes ago, *FreeFua* said:

I’ve seen a few people mention the fact NO only had 10 points going into the 4th as some sort of victory by the defense. 

I assume you’re box score watching?

The Saints had 4 real possessions going into the 4th quarter. One was the 11:22 minute TD drive and the other a 7:58 FG drive

According to nextgenstats there are normally 24 possessions in a game. There were 16 in Sundays game and that’s including a one play kneel down “possession” at the end of the first half and the final 1 play “possession” at the end of the game 

For comparison, there were 11 possessions in last nights Seahawks Rams game in the 4th quarter alone 

The defense is 28 out of 32 in salary cap allocation for 2025. We have a ton of resources tied up in the offense including the highest paid OL in the league multiple 1st round WR's and multiple recent draft picks across the offense at TE and RB and we have two 1000 yard backs. Bryce and company couldn't get past Tyler Shough and his crew in 2 games. That's all there is to it.

You can spin it and put the entire onus on the defense to your heart's desire it doesn't change the fact that this is an OFFENSIVE team now. If you want to argue that we should revert back to a defensive identity as we have been in the past which has brought us success then I will agree with you on that. But as it stands the onus is on the offense because that is where we have invested through the nose. Dave Canales and Bryce Young need to do a hell of a lot better than they have against the rebuilding Saints who without us should only have 2 wins this season.

[TLGPanthersFan]

2 minutes ago, frankw said:

The defense is 28 out of 32 in salary cap allocation for 2025. We have a ton of resources tied up in the offense including the highest paid OL in the league multiple 1st round WR's and multiple recent draft picks across the offense at TE and RB and we have two 1000 yard backs. Bryce and company couldn't get past Tyler Shough and his crew in 2 games. That's all there is to it.

You can spin it and put the entire onus on the defense to your heart's desire it doesn't change the fact that this is an OFFENSIVE team now. If you want to argue that we should revert back to a defensive identity as we have been in the past which has brought us success then I will agree with you on that. But as it stands the onus is on the offense because that is where we have invested through the nose. Dave Canales and Bryce Young need to do a hell of a lot better than they have against the rebuilding Saints who without us should only have 2 wins this season.

I have said if you out even an average QB into the offense we are averaging 25+ points a game. But that will never happen with Bryce under center. 

[frankw]

2 minutes ago, TLGPanthersFan said:

Bryce is not trending up. He is the same QB he has always been 

Bryce had his best statistical game ever this season against the Falcons but aside from that he has been either hot lukewarm or ice cold. And sandwiched in between the games he's won have been games like the 49ers loss and getting swept by the Saints with the division and the playoffs on the line. Only to some Panthers fans could that be considered "trending up" because we have lowered the bar so much for our third year #1 overall pick. I've legitimately never seen anything like it. Bryce Young is number 5 on the list of games played by Panthers QB's in franchise history with 43 games which is 2 games shy of tying Kerry Collins for number of games played as a Panther. And he has a 13-28 record. Yet he's "trending up". GTFO 🫵

[Khyber53]

10 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Not necessarily... 

What I honestly wish more people understood is that Canales doesn't necessarily look at Bryce the way we do. People are looking for excuses based on an assumption that he does. 

But I think if we're honest with ourselves, he doesn't. 

Canales may genuinely believe we can win, and even win big, with Bryce at question. 

Do I believe it? No, but what I, you or anyone else believes doesn't really matter.

So basically, if Canales believes in Young, then He's going to continue working with him as the starter until there comes a point where he doesn't. 

That likely ends up being a sh-t sandwich for Panther fans, but what's new?

Here's one of the most maddening things, that will be shown in full light over the next three weeks.

The same people around here that called Darnold a bum and Mayfield a washed up over draft are also the ones saying Bryce is a catastrophe. Yeah, and I've been one who said Bryce wasn't big enough, brave enough or capable enough. I said back in the day that Darnold had a lot of fight in him and got shouted down. And on Mayfield, heck I didn't know, I just knew we had a very, very bad team that was run terribly.

But I saw both of those guys go out there and resurrect their careers and be play-off bound since shaking the Carolina clay dust off their cleats. And we sat there and cat called their cars as they pulled out of the parking lot, laughing at what nobodies they were.

Over the next three weeks, those two guys may just serve us sh!t sandwiches and then settle down to their just desserts. And then we'll probably let Bryce go off into the realm of other teams.

And when that happens, will we see him coming back, better than before and we're left to re-sit this cycle all over again? Same naysayers, same results, same revolving carousel of ponies and pundits? 

Will we end up looking like the Temu version of the San Diego Chargers back in the day watching Drew Brees come to fruition in the previously moribund Superdome while we whiff on a Manning pick just to be jilted for Phillip "Always a Bridesmaid" Rivers?

Edited 2 hours ago by Khyber53

[*FreeFua*]

43 minutes ago, frankw said:

The defense is 28 out of 32 in salary cap allocation for 2025. We have a ton of resources tied up in the offense including the highest paid OL in the league multiple 1st round WR's and multiple recent draft picks across the offense at TE and RB and we have two 1000 yard backs. Bryce and company couldn't get past Tyler Shough and his crew in 2 games. That's all there is to it.

You can spin it and put the entire onus on the defense to your heart's desire it doesn't change the fact that this is an OFFENSIVE team now. If you want to argue that we should revert back to a defensive identity as we have been in the past which has brought us success then I will agree with you on that. But as it stands the onus is on the offense because that is where we have invested through the nose. Dave Canales and Bryce Young need to do a hell of a lot better than they have against the rebuilding Saints who without us should only have 2 wins this season.

And how’s that highest paid OL holding up in pass protection? Not good

I’m not going over the investments with you your logic is so flawed. But you just repeat the same crap every post. Investments don’t equal production. Tough to have these conversations when half this board doesn’t understand half this crap