Bryce Young is the first Panthers QB to throw for 20+ touchdowns in a season since Cam Newton in 2018.

[frankw]

5 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

Nah if a receiver is productive before and after a specific QB is throwing to him you can’t blame that receiver. I don’t want to go back into the huddle archives but every other week there was all-22 film of Robbie getting wide open and Sam not seeing him or missing the throw.

To be clear I'm not even remotely pro Sam Darnold.

But the numbers don't lie. At all.

Once he got that contract it was like the Monstars took his talent. It is what it is.

[jb2288]

15 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

You said that PFF is an algorithm that loads lots of data or whatever; it isn't.  It is a per-play grading system.

Not to be a dick here, but do you know what an algorithm is? I promise you that is what this is. They take a million stats from each players play from an automated tool (most likely AI at this point) and load all that data into an algorithm that spits out the quantitative data per play which aggregates however they do it to the scores you see. 

[CRA]

27 minutes ago, TN05 said:

See, this is how you can tell someone just reads stats.

I watched Teddy play. He was awful. Stats looked great, but only because he was averse to any form of risk. He was the opposite of clutch - we had chances to win so many games on a final drive that year, and we did that in exactly zero games. Genuinely, one of the most atrocious years of QB play in team history, right up there with year 1 Bryce, Jimmy Clausen, and Weinke.

lmao, no one protested Teddy coming here more than me.  It’s one of the reasons I also have issues with Bryce Young.  Low ceiling players. 

But Teddy gets a bump for operating in what had to be the most dysfunctional setup in Panther history.  Year 1 of Rhule who wasn’t doing NFL basics + COVID. 

Only issue that O had was putting the ball in the endzone….and we know Rhule wasn’t even letting them practice like a functional NFL team and doing redzone.   Between the 20s it was a pretty solid group.  Teddy was also efficient.  He was what he was.  An efficient checkdown QB. 

[mav1234]

3 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

Again how is his fault Darnold is a terrible QB???? Your just proving my point Robbie was able to produce with Teddy and not Darnold, Robbie was more productive with Josh Mccown than Darnold LOL, that’s how terrible Darnold was in NY and Carolina

i don’t give a a crap about yac/r the tape doesn’t lie, Tmac does not get separation like DJ, he’s not as fast as DJ and opposing defenses never double or bracket cover him like DJ. DJ was the ultimate stat inflator for Darnold and Teddy, he would literally take 2 yard hitch pass for 40 yards. Tmac can’t do that.

Robbie fell off a cliff after 2021 - if Darnold was that bad, he would have gone someplace else to find success. He didn't, because he got paid and decided he didn't care anymore.   It didn't matter who was throwing him the ball.

As to TMac vs DJ... the tape DOESN'T lie... TMac is a great receiver, too. So was / is DJ. As to your 2 yard whatever argument, if it was that big a difference *it would add up* in YAC/R, unless DJ just sucked on 90% of his receptions (he didn't). The reality is they're both elusive dudes, DJ is definitely moreso and faster, but TMac has a much wider catch radius and ability to bring down balls that DJ wouldn't be able to.  In only his first year TMac is only 3 ypg less than DJ's career in Carolina. Both are exceptional receivers, despite TMac only being his first season. As to taking a short pass and going 40 yards, TMac has had two passes that I remember where he took a short pass and went ~40 yards. The passes were beyond 2 yards but they weren't the deep bombs he and Young have really started to develop chemistry on too.

[mav1234]

2 minutes ago, jb2288 said:

Not to be a dick here, but do you know what an algorithm is? I promise you that is what this is. They take a million stats from each players play from an automated tool (most likely AI at this point) and load all that data into an algorithm that spits out the quantitative data per play which aggregates however they do it to the scores you see. 

This is not what they do, man. If you're going to be a bit of a dick you should really read up on PFF. It does not take "a million stats from each player." Each play is scored by an analyst for every player on the field. There is no stat aggregation and no "stats" at all as we think of them.

From the site I linked: "Each player is given a grade of -2 to +2 in 0.5 increments on a given play with 0 generally being the average or “expected” grade... Each position has its own grading rubric so our analysts know how to put a grade on the various expectations for a quarterback on a 10-yard pass beyond the sticks or what the range of grades might look like for a frontside offensive tackle down blocking on a “power” play."

And who is doing the grading... "PFF employs over 600 full or part-time analysts, but less than 10% of analysts are trained to the level that they can grade plays. Only the top two to three percent of analysts are on the team of “senior analysts” in charge of finalizing each grade after review."

And grades vs stats... "We aren’t grading players based on the yardage they rack up or the stats they collect."

So... No... PFF is not aggregating "a million stats from each player from an automated tool" at all. This is not what PFF does.

[GoobyPls]

2 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

Robbie fell off a cliff after 2021 - if Darnold was that bad, he would have gone someplace else to find success. He didn't, because he got paid and decided he didn't care anymore.   It didn't matter who was throwing him the ball.

As to TMac vs DJ... the tape DOESN'T lie... TMac is a great receiver, too. So was / is DJ. As to your 2 yard whatever argument, if it was that big a difference *it would add up* in YAC/R, unless DJ just sucked on 90% of his receptions (he didn't). The reality is they're both elusive dudes, DJ is definitely moreso and faster, but TMac has a much wider catch radius and ability to bring down balls that DJ wouldn't be able to.  In only his first year TMac is only 3 ypg less than DJ's career in Carolina. Both are exceptional receivers, despite TMac only being his first season. As to taking a short pass and going 40 yards, TMac has had two passes that I remember where he took a short pass and went ~40 yards. The passes were beyond 2 yards but they weren't the deep bombs he and Young have really started to develop chemistry on too.

Robbie fell of cause Darnold started throwing him ducks. Darnold had horrific accuracy. That amount of wide open passes Darnold would miss was other worldly.

 

Again DJ not being as productive goes back to Darnold and Baker being horrific in Carolina. DJ would be perfect for Bryce since he rarely misses the short passes. There were games where DJ would leave close to 200 yards on the field thanks Darnold erratic passing. Tmac will never had DJ yac ability, that was his knock coming out of Arizona. And his catch radius really hasn’t showed up this year.

[GoobyPls]

13 minutes ago, frankw said:

To be clear I'm not even remotely pro Sam Darnold.

But the numbers don't lie. At all.

Once he got that contract it was like the Monstars took his talent. It is what it is.

You fight his jets numbers were again he was better with Mccown. Darnold was a cancer all receivers 

[mav1234]

6 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

Robbie fell of cause Darnold started throwing him ducks. Darnold had horrific accuracy. That amount of wide open passes Darnold would miss was other worldly.

Again DJ not being as productive goes back to Darnold and Baker being horrific in Carolina. DJ would be perfect for Bryce since he rarely misses the short passes. There were games where DJ would leave close to 200 yards on the field thanks Darnold erratic passing. Tmac will never had DJ yac ability, that was his knock coming out of Arizona. And his catch radius really hasn’t showed up this year.

How the heck did Darnold follow Robbie around to Arizona and Miami and Washington to ruin him? C'mon man. Robbie was the problem (Darnold was also a problem in 2021 lol).

It's funny cause all I'm doing is saying both DJ and TMac are fuging awesome. As to DJ being perfect for Bryce, I'm not sure, but I would have loved to have still had DJ. We went for TMac because Bryce is pretty inaccurate downfield and you do need to threaten vertically. Tmac has been great there.

Edited 2 hours ago by mav1234

[countryboi]

I could see the argument for Baker, He was sold a bad hand but Sam got every chance to succeed here. He just wasnt very good and he was in his 4th and 5th season in the NFL. if Bryce played the way Sam did his last season with the Jets and we were 2-10. they would have sat him next to the practice squad. 

[GoobyPls]

1 minute ago, mav1234 said:

How the heck did Darnold follow Robbie around to Arizona and Miami and Washington to ruin him? C'mon man. Robbie was the problem (Darnold was also a problem in 2021 lol).

It's funny cause all I'm doing is saying both DJ and TMac are fuging awesome and you're over here trying to tear down TMac. As to DJ being perfect for Bryce, I'm not sure, but I would have loved to have still had DJ. We went for TMac because Bryce is pretty inaccurate downfield and you do need to threaten vertically. Tmac has been great there.

Again how is it that before arriving in NY Robbie had a career year, the same goes for in Carolina than as soon as Darnold becomes his QB his numbers submarines on both teams? Just coincidence I guess lol.

 

It’s not about tearing down Tmac is about the fact that DJ was a superior WR. His abilities lend themselves more to a true number 1 WR. Tmac is a fine rookie WR but he’s not on DJ level

This an example of DJ creating immense  separation that Tmac can’t 

 

https://x.com/robertkschmitz/status/1636893742916415490/video/1

[cranky]

1 hour ago, fanpanther said:

it was one of his best games he has ever played.  compared to a normal nfl qb it was an average game but average is the high bar for young.  b young is a 150 yd passer 1 td 1 turnover but sometimes u luck up get 2 tds and almost 200 yards with no turnovers but those days are rare.  honestly was amazed he had so many attempts and no turnovers.  its become obvious they are doing the 5th year just really hope they bring in real competition

21 TDs to only 9 INTS this season. Do you even watch the game?

[SmokinwithWilly]

4 minutes ago, countryboi said:

I could see the argument for Baker, He was sold a bad hand but Sam got every chance to succeed here. He just wasnt very good and he was in his 4th and 5th season in the NFL. if Bryce played the way Sam did his last season with the Jets and we were 2-10. they would have sat him next to the practice squad. 

He also got one of the worst head coaches to ever show his face in the NFL. Matt Rhule was a walking talking joke. Sam improved once Rhule was canned. I'm not a Sam defender by any stretch but he got a raw deal with his HCs. Adam Gase and Matt Rhule and people wonder why he couldn't get his poo together. It's not surprising that he played better once he got to an organization that wasn't a train wreck at the HC position. 

[mav1234]

25 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

Again how is it that before arriving in NY Robbie had a career year, the same goes for in Carolina than as soon as Darnold becomes his QB his numbers submarines on both teams? Just coincidence I guess lol.

What else happened at the end of the 2020 season? How did Darnold continue to plague him in Arizona, Miami, Washington? Or could it be that once he was paid... Then things started to change?

As to DJ vs TMac, we'll see how it goes. I think you may be underplaying TMac's ability to get separation. He frequently gets open, sometimes very open. He's averaging 2.7 yards of separation this year; DJ averaged 2.6 in 2019, 2.5 in 2020, 2.7 in 2021, and 2.8 in 2022. DJ is faster, but TMac is very fast too. DJ is more explosive but TMac's size gives him real potential to be a true #1. He looks better than DJ did as a rookie, but who knows what'll happen in future seasons.

Edited 2 hours ago by mav1234

[countryboi]

22 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

He also got one of the worst head coaches to ever show his face in the NFL. Matt Rhule was a walking talking joke. Sam improved once Rhule was canned. I'm not a Sam defender by any stretch but he got a raw deal with his HCs. Adam Gase and Matt Rhule and people wonder why he couldn't get his poo together. It's not surprising that he played better once he got to an organization that wasn't a train wreck at the HC position. 

If Matt would have just named a Baker the starter during training camp, I bet we play well enough to save his job. Splitting the reps was never going to get Baker enough reps to get ready for the start of the season.