Some ALL-22 clips…

[*FreeFua*]

28 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

Bryce missed a number of opportunities yesterday. There were guys open but he had either already moved on from them or never even got to them in the progression. He doesn't have a guy right now that he trusts. It was TMac earlier in the season, but he and TMac are not on the same page all the time, and Coker is actually the best WR on the team right now. I know that hurts some feelings, but it's true. The oline got their lunch money taken all day. It was really bad. In both the run game and the pass game. You could see when the QB lost all confidence in them and that mental clock started to shorten. But as a QB you have to push through that and stand in the pocket, go through your progressions, and deliver an accurate ball on time. 

But yeah, my biggest take away is that this offense lacks speed and a true playmaker. A couple of solid guys but no true playmaker. As much as BY checked down to RBs, they couldn't make a guy miss in one one opportunities. And they weren't even LBs. They were DBs. You have to make that guy miss. 

If they're serious about winning right now and not about player development, then Jimmy Horn needs to take XLs snaps. They only put him in to influence the deep safety with fly routes - XL can do that. Jimmy can run a lot more of the route tree than XL right now. Also Etienne needs to play more snaps. If BY is gonna be a checkdown king, then they need someone that can actually do something with the ball in space. Interior oline is weak. They aren't very consistent getting to the second level. Outside runs are this team's bread and butter. Gotta embrace that. 

Horn messed up in that Jets game where he flattened out his route for no reason which almost resulted in a INT then in that Saints game he didn’t think he was supposed to get that hand off resulting in a costly fumble 

I think he’s not too far behind XL with the in between the ears issues but had it not been for those two hiccups he probably be seeing the field more by now

Agree on Coker btw. That’ll hurt some feelings around here but he’s pretty damn reliable/dependable which is something Bryce’s game is dependant on being an anticipation type thrower 

Edited 1 hour ago by *FreeFua*

[WUnderhill]

5 minutes ago, *FreeFua* said:

Horn messed up in that Jets game where he flattened out his route for no reason which almost resulted in a INT then in that Saints game he didn’t think he was supposed to get that hand off resulting in a costly fumble 

I think he’s not too far behind XL with the in between the ears issues but had it not been for those two hiccups he probably be seeing the field more by now

Agree on Coker btw. That’ll hurt some feelings around here but he’s pretty damn reliable/dependable which is something Bryce’s game is dependant on being an anticipation type thrower 

Horn also botched the jet sweep yesterday and ran straight into a defender when it should have been an easy first down.

[*FreeFua*]

5 minutes ago, WUnderhill said:

Horn also botched the jet sweep yesterday and ran straight into a defender when it should have been an easy first down.

Did the same thing against the Jets as well. Had a walk in TD had he kept it outside but inside cut inside and we settled for 3

[fanpanther]

5 hours ago, Bear Hands said:

Yep, where I'll concede (even though I'm no Bryce fan) is there is maybe a bit heavy Bryce blaming from this game in particular going on considering how strong Seattle's defense is.  A lot has to do with the stakes and it being essentially a playoff game w/the Bucs losing.

Seattle took care of our offense, simple as that.  It's all completely fair to highlight.

Their front-7 doesn't have any 1 truly lethal guy but what the clips show is how well they play off each-other.  You can see in the all-22 stuff how relentless they are and can change direction.  Murphy, Lawrence, Nwosu, the secondary clamps down, understands correct spacing in zone.  They're elite.  

And MacDonald is easily my fave young coach right now.

Canales is hitting a wall.  Even though the season has had some surprises, this was his low.  

their pass defense is good but not that good.  they are giving up on average 198 yards passing per gamd which is higher than byoungs average per game.  their pass defense is basically the same as the panthers pass d

Edited 1 hour ago by fanpanther

[45catfan]

2 minutes ago, *FreeFua* said:

Bryce’s pick was bad. Where in this thread did I say it wasn’t?

3 years? I was completely over this guy after game 1 in 2023 in Atlanta. Post benching he’s looked better and has shown things I wanted to see. Not much more to it. You allow your emotions to take over much like a few others to the point that it’s impossible to talk anything team related because everything is blamed 100% on Bryce 

 

2 hours ago, 45catfan said:

Did we not cause two turnovers?  Darnold looked rattled most of the game. Sam got sacked more and had one more turnover than Bryce. I agree that it is a team game and it not solely on one person. But damn man, be consistent.  It can't be where in a win Bryce is Superman and when we lose it's suddenly a team game. Yes, there's enough blame to go around yesterday, but deflecting for the QB because he's your guy is homerism at it's finest.

It was a team loss, because it's a team game.  I even admitted so in the above post.  That does not deflect or shield a player or players for their role in that loss. Horn's penalty and Hubbard's fumble were super costly.  

What was your intent on starting this thread with an All-22 pass play?  Did you honestly think there would be no controversy around Bryce?  Then go on to say if anyone disagrees they are 100% anti-Bryce.  Really? 

I've stated over and over again my position on Bryce.  At this point, he's not the pre-benching '24 Bryce, that guy is largely gone.  However, his ceiling is game manager level for like 80% of his outings, that being middling...10% really good and 10% awful.  That's not my idea of a franchise QB.  The notion that we just have to maximize everything around him to nudge him above game manager level is not only unrealistic, but one sided...literally.  The defense has taken a back seat as a priority on this team, yet we complain about it.  How many die hard NFL fans can name anyone on our defense outside of Brown and Horn?  Heck most fair weather Panthers fan couldn't either.

[ncbob]

2 hours ago, *FreeFua* said:

Bryce is far from “my guy”. Ultimately I think he can be a top 7-10 QB in this league if Dan puts a proper team around him. He’s good enough that you can win with him

Ive said since forever I’d throw a late round dart at a QB almost yearly if it was up to me 

If you truly believe yesterdays loss was mainly because of Bryce then there’s no point in discussing anything football related with you 

You are delusional, no way he’s ever going to be top 10 QB. I don’t blame BY entirely, but this guy cannot carry the team when it’s needed. No arm, no vision, and can’t play in the pocket. 

[Bear Hands]

1 minute ago, fanpanther said:

their pass defense is good but not that good.  they are giving up on average 198 yards passing per gamd which is higher than byoungs average per game.  their pass defense is basically the same as the panthers pass d

They're sneaky good.  Very good.  And they had the personnel to match perfectly against us.  

Seattle played really straight forward cover-2 and cover-3 pretty much all day.  They had some nice simulated pressures in cover-3 that baited us to move more quickly than we needed to.  They just totally cooked us.  It was a full Macdonald checkmate against Canales & the offense.      

The recipe:

Contain the run game enough (check) and have the LB & secondary athleticism to shut us down in the air (check)     

For any team that can match our OL's run blocking, just run a cover 2/cover 3 all-day.  Similar to what the Saints did.  Pepper in some simulated pressures to bait Bryce while you're at it. 

Bryce doesn't play the best against zone.  Huge weakness, averages like -.09 EPA/P in his career. 

How that actualizes - from my eye test as a silly fan, he just doesn't have the velocity for the shorter/intermediates from in the pocket to the outside to get guys the ball in space vs zone.  His best games (Rams, Falcons) was when they had a blitz we caught, went man, or it was a critical down with a misdirect/PA and he had the space to throw a nice ball, sometimes with anticipation. 

23rd rated QB against zone.  24th completion percentage against zone.  42nd against zone ANY/A with a clean pocket.  ANY/A being one of the more consistent correlations to wins you can find out of the EPA stuff you'll see nowadays.  He doesn't even crack the top 32 for eligible QBs.    

[Bear Hands]

Also people - less "you don't know ball" or "you're delusional" crap.  It gets so tired.

[*FreeFua*]

19 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

 

It was a team loss, because it's a team game.  I even admitted so in the above post.  That does not deflect or shield a player or players for their role in that loss. Horn's penalty and Hubbard's fumble were super costly.  

What was your intent on starting this thread with an All-22 pass play?  Did you honestly think there would be no controversy around Bryce?  Then go on to say if anyone disagrees they are 100% anti-Bryce.  Really? 

I've stated over and over again my position on Bryce.  At this point, he's not the pre-benching '24 Bryce, that guy is largely gone.  However, his ceiling is game manager level for like 80% of his outings, that being middling...10% really good and 10% awful.  That's not my idea of a franchise QB.  The notion that we just have to maximize everything around him to nudge him above game manager level is not only unrealistic, but one sided...literally.  The defense has taken a back seat as a priority on this team, yet we complain about it.  How many die hard NFL fans can name anyone on our defense outside of Brown and Horn?  Heck most fair weather Panthers fan couldn't either.

I think everyone should watch all-22 clips. So they can understand what they’re watching but even by posting them people still don’t get it. There’s a large group on this board that will blame Bryce no matter what so I post all-22 clips to help illustrate all of our issues 

Which this team has a long list of from talent to coaching 

Horn dropped INT and penalty were AWFUL. Chuba fumble awful. 

[*FreeFua*]

12 minutes ago, ncbob said:

You are delusional, no way he’s ever going to be top 10 QB. I don’t blame BY entirely, but this guy cannot carry the team when it’s needed. No arm, no vision, and can’t play in the pocket. 

Sounds good man thanks for your input. Carry on

[TD alt]

3 hours ago, 45catfan said:

And the Vikings won with a rookie UDFA QB in his second career start behind an atrocious outing by the OL in pass pro.  Next excuse.

Yep, Bryce is not athletic enough to ascend beyond his own physical limitations. I know that that statement is straight from Mr. Obvious and unnecessary to be said, but damned if some people just don't seem to get it. 

[PNW_PantherMan]

14 minutes ago, *FreeFua* said:

I think everyone should watch all-22 clips. So they can understand what they’re watching but even by posting them people still don’t get it. There’s a large group on this board that will blame Bryce no matter what so I post all-22 clips to help illustrate all of our issues 

Which this team has a long list of from talent to coaching 

Horn dropped INT and penalty were AWFUL. Chuba fumble awful. 

The issue emerges when are critical of the entire team except Bryce, who had less than 60 yards passing.  It's not honest.

[mrcompletely11]

Top 7 qb.  Man I can't stop laughing at that one

[fanpanther]

14 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

The issue emerges when are critical of the entire team except Bryce, who had less than 60 yards passing.  It's not honest.

this is the issue if the panthers win byoung was amazing even if he had little to do wirh the win...if panthers lose every other player and coach sucks and held the greatbyoung down.  its like the kid whose parents always deflect blame