Isaiah Simmons: "A riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma"

[Chief Keek]

Simmons found his role on ST and he can be used as a rotational guy off the bench, that's his ceiling.

[Jon Snow]

2 hours ago, MHS831 said:

I hear you and I have said the same thing at times, but blanket statements are accurate part of the time at best.  I have also coached kids who had the "tools" but they were slow and unproductive on the field--and a few adjustments to the scheme or teaching techniques, and the light comes on.  We call them "late bloomers."  Based on my limited experience, it should be called "coaching."  As a former coach, if you gave me kids with the tools and I could not get them to perform at the level of their ability, then I have failed.  The coaches know this, so their timetables to win may be shorter than the time they have to develop a player--I think a lot of talent goes down the disposal, which is why the success rate for drafted players is so low.

In my view, based on my career as a professor and researcher, my job is to produce successful people for the workplace.   I use data to identify central problems and I use my relationships with my students to strengthen weaknesses.  I have a limited amount of time to do this before a decision is made about their development.  In this case, I would look at the variables (data and the situational influences unique to this individual that may have stunted growth) and not the ineffective player as the center of the problem.  The team has already interviewed him, talked to his college coaches, measured him, etc. So I would minimize the assumption that the kid is the problem and look at his system of support and teaching strategies.  Nobody wants to admit THEY might be the problem.  To blame a first-rounder for failing, you have to admit either you did not properly identify the prospect's potential (which is your job) or you were unable to prepare that prospect (with all the tools that got him the job) to succeed (also your job).  So are we going to blame the 24-year-old kid with all the tools to succeed for sucking or are we going to take responsibility for his success as his mentors and teachers?

 

Sounds like a lot of excuse making for people over 18. Yes I'm blaming the 24 year old. Either you are or you aren't able to play this game. Stop looking for athletes and get ball players. If they cannot play the game when they get here we do not need you. This is not grade school. 

[Castavar]

4 hours ago, Jon Snow said:

Tools. If I hear that term used one more time I'm going to lose my damn mind.  "Tools" are meaningless if they cannot use them already. Stop looking for "tools" and find productive football players. Stop looking for combine freaks and look for guys that have produced at a high level already. Tools my ass.

Yep, that's how we get players like Leggette over Ladd McConkey, or DJ Johnson who's college production was trash but, you know, measurables 

[csx]

He's just not a great football player given his measurables. He's become a good special teams player so he must have gotten over the contact issue. I suppose he doesn't have the will or the aptitude to excel with the X's and O's

Edited 1 hour ago by csx

[Carolina Cajun]

This was a super interesting analysis....and I will say I dont think it prevents us from looking at Safety in the draft. IF Ransom takes a step up and outplays Moehrig, there is an out for them after the year as a potential cap cut.  EVEN if not, if you are right and Simmons shows some promise as a Big nickel and Moehrig gets  injured and Ransom looks good (or even if Moehrig looks bad) I could see him being a cap casualty in 2027 as long as we feel we have enough talent there as starting potential.  Lotta football to play and Lotta injuries to happen.  Im hopeful because his measurables are through the roof, but unless they translate you still gotta go with what you got.

[MHS831]

1 minute ago, csx said:

He's just not a great football player given his measurables. He's become a good special teams player so he must have gotten over the contact issu. I suppose he doesn't have the will or the aptitude to excel with the X's and O's

I work with social emotional learning and I don't know why a player with all the tools (to Snow's point) sucks when he was a top 10 player in college.  It is not talent, and it is usually not due to some learning disability-.  It comes down to dispositions or emotions in a lot of cases.

The reason I pointed out Simmons in particular is because he was drafted to be a DC's new weapon.  I have friends who played in the NFL and they talk about the amount they throw at you--and those were guys who played 1 position.  Simmons shows his ability on special teams--where you are a bit more turned loose than scripted or forced to read blocking schemes or pass routes, etc.  See ball, get ball.  Simmons has been tried at CB, nickel, S , LB edge and he has had 5 different coordinators if you do not count the STs guy.  This would overwhelm most people.  Nobody knows what it does to your confidence and motivation to go from the best player on your team and a top college player to getting cut.  

I just think that players like this can be saved.  To say, "He just isn't good" is not to answer the question, "Why was this not noticed during the interviews?  game film?  Combine?  References?  etc.  No, there has to be something more to it than that.  I think Isaiah needs one job and that job should be aligned with a strength.  If he fails then, fine.  Maybe he lost his mojo.  Maybe he never had it.  But to understand what he has been through is to give the guy the benefit of the doubt.  If you played in high school, you got a happy meal version of what it is like in college.  College was an appetizer when compared to pros.  We shall see.  But I am more optimistic about Simmons than I am XL.  Simmons was asked to things most NFL players cannot do.  XL just needs to catch the damn ball in bounds.   Middle schoolers do it every day.

[MHS831]

5 minutes ago, Carolina Cajun said:

This was a super interesting analysis....and I will say I dont think it prevents us from looking at Safety in the draft. IF Ransom takes a step up and outplays Moehrig, there is an out for them after the year as a potential cap cut.  EVEN if not, if you are right and Simmons shows some promise as a Big nickel and Moehrig gets  injured and Ransom looks good (or even if Moehrig looks bad) I could see him being a cap casualty in 2027 as long as we feel we have enough talent there as starting potential.  Lotta football to play and Lotta injuries to happen.  Im hopeful because his measurables are through the roof, but unless they translate you still gotta go with what you got.

I agree.  Some situations are all we should ask--shadow the qb (someone suggested that) or cover a TE, or blitz from the big nickel position.  Forget S, edge, CB,LB--