It is time to Consider the Likelihood of WR at #19

[csx]

Metchie is as good or better than the WR being discussed for the Panthers 

Edited April 10 by csx

[TD alt]

3 hours ago, tukafan21 said:

A few reasons, first being that's the length of rookie contracts (not counting the 5th year option for 1st roudners).  Also trying to go 5+ years out feels long and 3 or less feels too short for there to be all too much of a change.

And you still seem to be arguing for this as if it's the only way to get a WR in that mold and that we don't have bigger problems than WR right now.  Just because we need one thing, doesn't mean bigger needs should be ignored to fill that one, especially when that position already has one of our best players on the team.

Again, yes, we need that type of WR, but we have other bigger and more pressing needs.

It's also wildly unfair to say we have 1 WR right now, I think Coker has shown enough to be considered a solid WR moving forward with how he finished the season.

I don't find it unfair at all. Have you compared Coker's actual production to other second and third options in the league. Come on, man. 

For the record, I am a proponent of the BPA. I don't care what position it is. Similarly, I am very much against reaching down over a superior player to get another one based on need. It's as simple as that. 

[tukafan21]

26 minutes ago, TD alt said:

I don't find it unfair at all. Have you compared Coker's actual production to other second and third options in the league. Come on, man. 

For the record, I am a proponent of the BPA. I don't care what position it is. Similarly, I am very much against reaching down over a superior player to get another one based on need. It's as simple as that. 

If all you're looking at is his season yardage statistics, then sure, they won't look great, but look a little deeper and the production is clearly there on the field...

As an UDFA,  the teams #3 WR, and poor QB play, he had 478 yards in only 11 games.  If he had that average over a 17 game season he would have had a 738 yard season as an undrafted rookie.  

This past year he missed the start of the season and clearly took time to get back to form once he was back.  But remove his first 4 games getting back to form, and over the final 7 games he had a per game average that would have been a 796 yard season over 17 games.

796 yards this past season would have been 34th in the league overall, and 27th best for a WR.  And that was all before he went and dropped a 134 yard game in the playoffs.  

Pretty sure that's pretty darn good production for a 2nd or 3rd option, no?

So again, I think it's wildly unfair to say we only have 1 WR, as if Coker plays a full season this year, he should be good for 800-1000 yards, even with T-Mac next to him getting 1,200+ himself.

This is why I don't at all see the need for drafting a WR in the 1st this year, not while still having XL, Horn Jr, and I guess Metchie even though I'm not at all sold on him.  Draft a speedy WR in the 3rd or 4th and/or sign a vet (is DHop still out there?) to play in the slot this year, and use that 1st on a position of more need.

Edited April 11 by tukafan21

[strato]

7 hours ago, MHS831 said:

To be clear, I am not advocating for drafting a WR.  As for the OTs we have met with--I am not sure how or when or where and whether or not that even matters.

I can say this about OL:  Those tackles would not play much (unless there is an injury and Fano is probably going to be a guard.  Lomu seems to have slipped a bit (based on the perspectives of crackheads who publish on the interweb or broadcast from their pods.) I like Lomu.  I like Proctor--I think he is the #1 OT but the weight (he was 390) scares me.  Imagine him with $10m in his bank account at the gas station when the 16-pack of Reeses Peanut Butter Cup is right below his fingertips at the counter.  NOOOO!

Blake Miller might be the most practical option, to be honest. I watched his vidoes for several minutes (not to exceed 10 because my father played for the Gamecocks when I was born) and I was impressed.   At 19?  A bit rich, but we don't know what the GMs know.  

Bryce's contract is another issue.  If they decide to give him a bag of money (suicide hotline 1-800-JUMP), they are going to have to part ways with some vet contracts.  Moton, Hunt, and Lewis come to mind.  Ickey could be gone too.  So....I assume we will have a starting center by next year...

We are going to have to part with those contracts anyway at the latest, after 2027. 
 

Here’s what I think about sinking another 1st into WR: the cumulative passing yards won’t be affected that much. Yards and targets will just be redistributed. Because Bryce can’t play the ‘beat you with his arm’ type of game against 3/4 of the league. Only the weak sisters. Make us one dimensional and the QB hasn’t shown he is up to that. So we have to run a ton. It’s just how it is and the typical Sunday will have lower passing numbers as a result. 

Yeah he did pull off a great 4th quarter vs LAR in November and looked good against them in the rematch. Did people notice that they responded to that by maki g big moves to upgrade their pass defense? 
It was a weak unit. Like Atlanta was a weak unit. If he is gonna get better at that vs strong defenses he needs stout protection. Dan showed at first that he understood this, but the OL has been degraded. That room should be maintained as a super strength. 
 

I guess it is ‘chicken or the egg’ re Young or his WRs that are to blame but we have seen three years of Bryce’s act. Couldn’t get a TD for Tet until week 6. That’s OROY too. 
 

That’s where my opinions fall. 

 

[Bear Hands]

I can see Cooper being a target. Wouldn’t be bent out of shape w a WR, but obviously not a preference if we’re talking position picked — but I’m just looking for impact.

And man, this draft class is an odd bunch in our range.

Has these really talented hybrid Slot/Safeties, McDonald (but I think I liked Tyleik more the other year), Faulk (huge work in progress), Saddiq (TE in R1?), and some interesting but wildly different profiling OTs.

Our biggest needs: ILB, 3-4 DE, S/Slot (à la Branch), OT, WR, and TE

The WRs here would be a notable impact add. 

I personally don’t have a position I am pining for. I see Thieneman, Cooper, McDonald, and McNeil-Warren as my faves right now but it could change. 

Iheanachor is a sleeper at OT over Proctor, Miller and others.

A big eye-of-the-beholder year. It would take a major reach for me to be ticked with the pick bc there’s just too big a range of players, positions and types this draft.

Unpopular: Honestly, I kind of love the idea of just trading up for Styles if he slips to 8/9. It’s not a year where capital is going to be lofty. 
 

 

[TD alt]

1 hour ago, tukafan21 said:

If all you're looking at is his season yardage statistics, then sure, they won't look great, but look a little deeper and the production is clearly there on the field...

As an UDFA,  the teams #3 WR, and poor QB play, he had 478 yards in only 11 games.  If he had that average over a 17 game season he would have had a 738 yard season as an undrafted rookie.  

This past year he missed the start of the season and clearly took time to get back to form once he was back.  But remove his first 4 games getting back to form, and over the final 7 games he had a per game average that would have been a 796 yard season over 17 games.

796 yards this past season would have been 34th in the league overall, and 27th best for a WR.  And that was all before he went and dropped a 134 yard game in the playoffs.  

Pretty sure that's pretty darn good production for a 2nd or 3rd option, no?

So again, I think it's wildly unfair to say we only have 1 WR, as if Coker plays a full season this year, he should be good for 800-1000 yards, even with T-Mac next to him getting 1,200+ himself.

This is why I don't at all see the need for drafting a WR in the 1st this year, not while still having XL, Horn Jr, and I guess Metchie even though I'm not at all sold on him.  Draft a speedy WR in the 3rd or 4th and/or sign a vet (is DHop still out there?) to play in the slot this year, and use that 1st orn a position of more need.

You're doing a lot of projection for a guy who has two seasons under his belt and can't seem to stay on the field. Not you necessarily, but I remember someone doing some calculations about Coker after season 1. I surely wouldn't count on it. If anything, it's another reason why we need another legit receiver. 

I know where you stand, but I'm just not going to agree.

[Cpt slay a ho]

I was thinking more so if one of the top 3 wr fell to us I can see it being the pick. Anything offense related wouldn’t surprise me.

If Bryce flops at least the next qb comes into a loaded offense and our window reopens if we land a qb.

[TD alt]

4 hours ago, tukafan21 said:

You really think I don’t want us to use a late 1st round pick on a WR because of my T-Mac fandom?

Despite my numerous and detailed explanations of why I think we both need another WR but why using our 1st rounder on it is a terrible idea when you think about it beyond just this next season’s needs?

Disagree if you’d like, but have legitimate reasons, not thinking I’m afraid of the reigning OROY losing catches to the 5th best WR in this draft, just an absurd take.

You don't know if it would be the fifth best receiver or not. Keep it ! Whether any receiver gets catches or attempts will mainly depend upon if they're adept at getting open. Hell, someone in the second or third round could end up being the best receiver in the draft, and that's not a stretch because it's happened enough historically when you start paying attention.

[csx]

8 minutes ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

I was thinking more so if one of the top 3 wr fell to us I can see it being the pick. Anything offense related wouldn’t surprise me.

If Bryce flops at least the next qb comes into a loaded offense and our window reopens if we land a qb.

OL is arguably much more important to the success of a young QB. (Or any QB)

Edited April 11 by csx

[R0CKnR0LLA]

1st round - WR

2nd round - RB

3rd round - undersized Appalachian State player we convert to a position they've never played before

 

 

[pantherclaw]

15 hours ago, tukafan21 said:

Drafting a WR in the 1st only guarantees one of T-Mac, Coker, or the new draft pick has zero chance of still being on the roster 4 years from now because they can’t all be paid at the same time.

Which is why a WR in the 1st makes no sense, if we do that, I’d be pissed if we don’t also trade Coker this offseason, and I have zero interest in trading him, so………

We know T-Mac is that dude, so unless the team has serious concerns about Coker taking the next step, WR makes so sense to me in the 1st

I never worry about a problem like that. It works itself out in the 4 years   

[firefox1234]

7 hours ago, Bear Hands said:

I can see Cooper being a target. Wouldn’t be bent out of shape w a WR, but obviously not a preference if we’re talking position picked — but I’m just looking for impact.

And man, this draft class is an odd bunch in our range.

Has these really talented hybrid Slot/Safeties, McDonald (but I think I liked Tyleik more the other year), Faulk (huge work in progress), Saddiq (TE in R1?), and some interesting but wildly different profiling OTs.

Our biggest needs: ILB, 3-4 DE, S/Slot (à la Branch), OT, WR, and TE

The WRs here would be a notable impact add. 

I personally don’t have a position I am pining for. I see Thieneman, Cooper, McDonald, and McNeil-Warren as my faves right now but it could change. 

Iheanachor is a sleeper at OT over Proctor, Miller and others.

A big eye-of-the-beholder year. It would take a major reach for me to be ticked with the pick bc there’s just too big a range of players, positions and types this draft.

Unpopular: Honestly, I kind of love the idea of just trading up for Styles if he slips to 8/9. It’s not a year where capital is going to be lofty. 
 

 

This is where I am and why I have started to be think ILB might even be the pick at 19 or a trade down. There are probably no more than 8-9 first round talents in the draft. Everyone else has various degrees of baggage after that.

[mrcompletely11]

9 hours ago, TD alt said:

You're doing a lot of projection for a guy who has two seasons under his belt and can't seem to stay on the field. Not you necessarily, but I remember someone doing some calculations about Coker after season 1. I surely wouldn't count on it. If anything, it's another reason why we need another legit receiver. 

I know where you stand, but I'm just not going to agree.

question so if Coker gets hurt again and misses time and the offense is still stagnant are you going to want to draft another 1rst rd wr in 27?

[TD alt]

1 hour ago, mrcompletely11 said:

question so if Coker gets hurt again and misses time and the offense is still stagnant are you going to want to draft another 1rst rd wr in 27?

That depends upon what happens with receiver this year and what happens with free agency next year. Hopefully we'll be good by addressing receiver this year (regardless of whether we snag one in the first round or not). If we don't and are unlucky enough for to Coker get hurt (and X solidifies his bust status, and JAGs be JAGing), then we may be fùçked! But I assume that Dan Morgan and company will feel compelled to look for answers in free agency and use that to set up the draft just like this offseason. 

Reality is not as simple as we drafted this position X times in a row in the first. If you're suggesting that we could draft a position in the first four times in a row, that's not likely. At some point probability has to be taken into account. I mean, how many years in a row can you be unlucky with one position? 

As I've said at times before, you try and plan for the long term personnel-wise and cap-wise of course, but things happen so, in a sense, you still must look at each season--each "team" if you will--unto itself each season. So many things can happen between now and then. A major industry can profoundly impact the bigger picture (like this year), someone could offer you a trade proposal that you can't resist, players might not have progressed to your expectations--you know, things like that. Moreover, you have to be aware of the dynamics of each draft class, including the fact that there could be unexpected draft risers and fallers during the college season. That's a lot. As of today, we expect the 2027 draft to have more exclamations than question marks at OT and the QB class and WR group is expected to be exceptionally strong. We'll have a clearer picture of whatever we'll have to focus on next year at this time. 

Lastly, keep in mind that there's always more than one way to get you to where you want to go. The yearly puzzle is not static, it's dynamic and complex.