Panthers surprise Cuts and Restructures?

[Cam's New Arm]

Why not do like I do in madden and just cut the FB and 'make' JS the FB? Nothing would really change. JS is a better blocker then our current FB, anyway.

And yes, I know Madden is not real life. duh.

[chef17]

I love CJ, but he is a luxury we do not need. Could have better spent that money. See what I did there? IF DWill was a 3rd stringer I may well argee that he makes too much money. Seeing as how he is a starting caliber NFL RB, his pay commencerates (sp) his performance.

Teams restructure. Teams finagle and wiggle around that cap. You do not jetison your stars at the first sign of a struggle. Of which, we as fans, are curiously left out of that loop. That mythical cap. The forborer of bad tidings. We are in uncharted waters around here. This franchise has Dynasty written all over it. Now that is pressure.

Even for a homer like me it is an exciting time to be a Panther fan. Ahh, the possibilities are endless. Cuts, signings, drafts, mini-camps, otas, training-camp. Lots a stuff gonna happen round these parts. All I want is a front row seat, cuz it is gon-b crazy up in here. Did I do that right?

My giddy be happy. And GOOOOO CATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You just went way past homer

[panthers55]

I have zero dislike for Williams......he is just a luxury that will cost this TEAM going forward.

And again, just like the first half of the season he had too many runs of 2 yards or less. Facts are facts and half his touches resulted in those runs. In fact over the last 8 games he had a smaller % of runs of 5+ yard runs vs the first half. The home runs for TDs have a way of hiding all that. You don't pay RBs and invest in them like we possibly could in the future for them to be role players....not in this passing era.

Stewart was the better RB overall. Stewart fits the scheme better. Stewart has more potential going forward. Newton and Stewart plus a cheap role player is more than enough for our ground attack. You can try to spin that as Williams hate.....but it isn't. in today's NFL....Williams contract with our situation just didn't make sense. Hindsight with what Cam brings just makes it more clear.

The issue is how it impacts us AFTER next season keeping both...

First of all no back consistently run for 5 yards a carry. The average always is a mixture of big runs and lots of smaller ones. Home runs and big plays which result in scores are what we are about these days and when Williams breaks a big one that is a big deal and scores 7 points. You are making too little of it.

What made Stewart the better running back this year was not his running but his receiving and running screens. His rushing totals are decent but not great. He had 0 100 yard rushing games this season and in the first 8 games he broke 60 yards once. In half of those 8 games he averaged less than 4 yards a carry. Against Green Bay less than 1 yard a carry.

He benefitted just as much with big plays as Williams did and wasn't clearly better running the ball. They both averaged 5.4 yards a carry. So lets bring it down to earth here a little.

As for only needing a quarterback and one running back for the season, where have you been???? We ran the ball 445 times this year. Stewart ran it 142 times and Williams 155. Stewart has never had more than 221 carries for us. And that year (2009) we ran the ball 525 times. He has never gotten more than 50% of our rushing attempts even when Williams was out last year for 10 games. So there is absolutely no evidence to show that he would hold up if he was the main guy and got 350 -400 carries in a season. There is evidence to show that burning a guy out like Atlanta did with Turner does lead to injuries and problems down the line.

Take this year for example, Cam ran 126 times, does anyone think that the coaches are going to want him to run the ball 200 or more. Lets be serious. Newton is a quarterback who runs not a runningback who throws. He won't be running the ball 20 times a game this year. I suspect that teams are going to use a spy like we did for Vick to limit his running so it will likely stay the same but won't go up. So again, is Stewart suddenly going to run 350 times a game and catch another 45 balls for us this year?

Yeah as long as we plan on replacing him in 2013 instead of resigning him after he breaks down. The system works and it isn't broken. Stewart is good because he is in a system with Williams and vice versa. This discussion is bordering on ridiculous. When Stewart gets paid in 2013 and doesn't have a 1500 yard season I can see the same kind of discussion as we are having about Williams.

[MHS831]

Williams didn't even account for half our production on the ground this year......yards or TDs. Can't imply he will at 29, 30, 31 or 32...not with the other talent here.

Williams has been a great player on and off the field for Carolina...IMO that clouds judgement in Carolina. Both with ownership and the fans.

I agree 100%. While the rest of the league is de-valuing the RB position, we are putting a premium on it. Before signing that mega deal last year, Williams was already showing signs of slowing down--had not had a full season since 2009.

Most second contracts for RBs are not good ideas. Marty Hurney has made some very questionable moves over the past several years--it started for me when he gave DehHomme the huge deal following Tommy John surgery.

The best approach to RB, now that we have Cam, is to draft one in the second or third round every two years. Marty needs to learn that RBs are role players in this offense. Put your value in DT, DE, OL, and CB.

While we stockpile on first round RBs on second contracts, when was the last time we drafted or signed a quality DT? Not during the Hurney era. What about CB? I think he moved up for gamble, but the rest is ugly. WR? Jarrett and....?

2 stud, high-priced RBs is FOXball. They are nice, but a luxury we do not need and cannot afford. I say never sign a RB to a second contract. Their best years are right out of the gate. Use your resources wisely, and develop a stud OL, scary WR corps, and a defense that pressures the passer and covers the field. Instead, we throw money at aging RBs, Broken QBs and LBs, and give contracts to a 2-14 core that makes them laugh when being interviewed about it.

[CRA]

First of all no back consistently run for 5 yards a carry. The average always is a mixture of big runs and lots of smaller ones. Home runs and big plays which result in scores are what we are about these days and when Williams breaks a big one that is a big deal and scores 7 points. You are making too little of it.

What made Stewart the better running back this year was not his running but his receiving and running screens. His rushing totals are decent but not great. He had 0 100 yard rushing games this season and in the first 8 games he broke 60 yards once. In half of those 8 games he averaged less than 4 yards a carry. Against Green Bay less than 1 yard a carry.

He benefitted just as much with big plays as Williams did and wasn't clearly better running the ball. They both averaged 5.4 yards a carry. So lets bring it down to earth here a little.

As for only needing a quarterback and one running back for the season, where have you been???? We ran the ball 445 times this year. Stewart ran it 142 times and Williams 155. Stewart has never had more than 221 carries for us. And that year (2009) we ran the ball 525 times. He has never gotten more than 50% of our rushing attempts even when Williams was out last year for 10 games. So there is absolutely no evidence to show that he would hold up if he was the main guy and got 350 -400 carries in a season. There is evidence to show that burning a guy out like Atlanta did with Turner does lead to injuries and problems down the line.

Take this year for example, Cam ran 126 times, does anyone think that the coaches are going to want him to run the ball 200 or more. Lets be serious. Newton is a quarterback who runs not a runningback who throws. He won't be running the ball 20 times a game this year. I suspect that teams are going to use a spy like we did for Vick to limit his running so it will likely stay the same but won't go up. So again, is Stewart suddenly going to run 350 times a game and catch another 45 balls for us this year?

Yeah as long as we plan on replacing him in 2013 instead of resigning him after he breaks down. The system works and it isn't broken. Stewart is good because he is in a system with Williams and vice versa. This discussion is bordering on ridiculous. When Stewart gets paid in 2013 and doesn't have a 1500 yard season I can see the same kind of discussion as we are having about Williams.

As a runner Stewart was more consistent. DeAngelo in his past was more consistent.

So no, I don't agree with the thought top tier runners have such a high percentage of runs of 2 yards or less. They don't. Williams did though.

Also, Cam, Stewart, and a cheap RB who FITS the scheme is more than enough of a running attack. Arguing you need Cam and 2 1st rounders is silly. Teams without a Newton don't invest like that at the position.....they are working on the positions that the new

rules have made more important.

[panthers55]

As a runner Stewart was more consistent. DeAngelo in his past was more consistent.

So no, I don't agree with the thought top tier runners have such a high percentage of runs of 2 yards or less. They don't. Williams did though.

Also, Cam, Stewart, and a cheap RB who FITS the scheme is more than enough of a running attack. Arguing you need Cam and 2 1st rounders is silly. Teams without a Newton don't invest like that at the position.....they are working on the positions that the new

rules have made more important.

First of all you make statements with no facts to back them up. You state that top tier running backs don't have a high percentage of runs 2 yards or less. How many did DeAngelo have last year? Give me a real number. Not your opinion or one you estimate but a real one. Then compare it to the top 10 ten backs in the league. Then you can make a statement. Until then you are just making stuff up.

Stating that all we need is one running back and a scrub is going against what we have established here which is our system. Including Newton in our running stable is not a sure thing at this point. He is a quarterback not a runningback. Who is to say he will run more than he did last year as he learns the system and develops into a better passer. Frankly all our running backs averaged over 5 yards a carry which was best in the league as a group. And you want to tear it down. All I can say is I am glad you are on the messageboard and not in the front office.

You could develop more credibility if you took the time to research your positions rather than just state your opinion as if it was fact. One that isn't shared by the team, coaches and a large portion of fans. You would think that demands more explanation and fact rather than little to none at all.

[CRA]

First of all you make statements with no facts to back them up. You state that top tier running backs don't have a high percentage of runs 2 yards or less. How many did DeAngelo have last year? Give me a real number. Not your opinion or one you estimate but a real one. Then compare it to the top 10 ten backs in the league. Then you can make a statement. Until then you are just making stuff up.

Stating that all we need is one running back and a scrub is going against what we have established here which is our system. Including Newton in our running stable is not a sure thing at this point. He is a quarterback not a runningback. Who is to say he will run more than he did last year as he learns the system and develops into a better passer. Frankly all our running backs averaged over 5 yards a carry which was best in the league as a group. And you want to tear it down. All I can say is I am glad you are on the messageboard and not in the front office.

You could develop more credibility if you took the time to research your positions rather than just state your opinion as if it was fact. One that isn't shared by the team, coaches and a large portion of fans. You would think that demands more explanation and fact rather than little to none at all.

So you think a top tier RB having 50% of his runs going for 2 yards or less is normal?

I have researched it....that is HOW I know the percentages of Williams' runs. I actually have been working on a post for this offseason for some time now about our backfield.

Name an elite runner who you want to compare to Williams? Arian Foster? Will he do?

Problem is people get hung up on the past, how nice a guy is, and a couple TD runs......Williams will be 29 this season and the evidence is there he is slowing down if you look into it. He should be slowing down.....that isn't a knock on him. This assumption that Williams will defy what occurs to NFL RBs is silly.....the 29, 30, 31, 32 yr old Williams will not be elite.

[SCP]

So many words on this page

[panthers55]

So you think a top tier RB having 50% of his runs going for 2 yards or less is normal?

I have researched it....that is HOW I know the percentages of Williams' runs. I actually have been working on a post for this offseason for some time now about our backfield.

Name an elite runner who you want to compare to Williams? Arian Foster? Will he do?

Problem is people get hung up on the past, how nice a guy is, and a couple TD runs......Williams will be 29 this season and the evidence is there he is slowing down if you look into it. He should be slowing down.....that isn't a knock on him. This assumption that Williams will defy what occurs to NFL RBs is silly.....the 29, 30, 31, 32 yr old Williams will not be elite.

Then give me the numbers. While you are at it do it for Stewart as well. Then break it down between the first half of the year and the second half. Then break it down between right and left side of the line and compare Stewart and Williams so we have a fair comparison. Then go ahead and post it so we can see where you got the numbers. Only then will you assertion have any credibility.

So what are the numbers on Arian Foster? And what about the 10 top runningbacks in the league right now? Until then it is only your opinion. I would also be rather skeptical of any results you produce when it is clear you are so biased to begin with that you will likely only choose to include data which reinforces what you already believe to be true.

As for the assertion that he is slowing down, his yards per carry were the best he has put up in the last 3 seasons and only 1 tenth of a yard below his career high of 5.5 in 2008. So no there doesn't seem to be any slowing down based on the facts.

[Razeyfingers]

So many words on this page

This post was sprinkled with sauce of the weakness where it should have been sprinkled with sauce of the swagness. . NO FLAVA!

[Wyank]

I believe CRA argument has been having two stud 1st rounders at RB is a luxury. It's nice to have but with having big needs on the opposite side of the ball and special teams, it is one area after this upcoming season that could be addressed. Stewart being younger and better fit for this offense, better in the receiving game as both receiver and blocker as well a great option in the running game, should be the one we stick with while moving on from D Will. Eventually the cap numbers are going to make us choose. Unless Williams contract is heavily front loaded and he is going to be cheap per year after this upcoming season, paying 2 RB in today's NFL top money is not smart cap management.

I also agree with CRA statement of Williams being more boom or bust while Stewart is more consistent gaining yards while having less explosion.

DeAngelo Williams 155 carries, 11 runs of 20+ yards, 1 explosive play every 14.1 carries

Sure, DeAngelo does get stopped for no gain more than we would like, but he maintained a 5.4 yards average for much of the year, and nearly reached 1,000 yards on only 155 carries.

Jonathan Stewart carried the ball 142 times and had 6 runs of 20 or more yards, or one every 23.6 carries. Stewart is the more consistent short-yardage back, yes, but not the more explosive.

Link

That person's article was pro-Williams staying. Saying Williams is the most explosive back in the league but concedes Stewart is more consistent in short-yardage back.

They are both great RB and it is a nice luxury of having both play for us.

[Wyank]

This is all a matter of us couch GM's debating what is better for the team in the not so distant future. If the team drafts a late round scat RB this year, it may be a sign that the FO is thinking the same thing. One of them maybe leaving after this upcoming season. The older with limited time left on the tread or peaking RB with more time on the tread, barring injuries of course. If they do draft a late RB that shines in his limited duty, it will be even more writing on the wall for one of the studs.

[NJPanthers89]

The whole argument again is not that Deangelo is a BAD running back. Not a single person on this thread has implied that. What myself and CRA are trying to explain is that Stewart is the better fit for this offense at the moment. He is overall a better running back than Deangelo and that's a fact. you can run off all the statistics in the world, i watched the games, every single one and there wasen't a time during the season where i thought Deangelo looked better than JStew. I love Deangelo, but he got stopped at the line wayyyy to often for my liking. You can say it's scheme, hesitation, i don't care, its was happening a lot. When we needed a big first down Stewart or Cam got it done. Now if money didnt have any factor in decision making i dont care at all, i would love to have both of them for teh remainder of their careers.

BUT GUESS WHAT THERES A SALARY CAP IN FOOTBALL! We cant afford a luxury of having 2 RB's when our defense looks like backups. Be serious, i would trade Deangelo for a DT, or CB tommorow. Because we would be fine with Stewart and Cam. Deangelo's money and the luxury of having a second good running back might be holding back our defense that's the point...The question you have to ask is not if Deangelo is a good running back, but is he worth holding back spending on our defense for..

[klumme]

As a runner Stewart was more consistent. DeAngelo in his past was more consistent.

You cant compare the two that way. The are used in diffrient situations and thus get diffrient results. And regarding Williams the glass is truly half emty for you. Another way of looking at it could be that Williams is a way bigger playmaker than Stewart. The best way to look at though is that the two guys fit us and eachother perfect. The both produce and they both produce at a high level.

Also, Cam, Stewart, and a cheap RB who FITS the scheme is more than enough of a running attack. Arguing you need Cam and 2 1st rounders is silly. Teams without a Newton don't invest like that at the position.....they are working on the positions that the new

rules have made more important.

Who cares what others do. BB does everything is own way and win. And I like how you make it sound eazy to find a cheap RB that produce at Williams level. Well then I say lets use 70 mil on RB and just find some cheap DTs, CBs etc that fit the system and boom SB.

I will say it again.... 15 mil a year (20 with Newton ) for 2000 yds is not a bad deal. Not as stupid as using a high draft pick every two year. If we in the next 10 years use 5. 2nd round draft pick on RBs this messageboard will go crazy and demand Hurney fired.