talent vs player develpment

[motocross_cat]

Topic came up at lunch today so figured id see what yall think.

 

The past few seasons we have seen a huge improvement in player talent in carolina.  Question is do you attribute it more to solid drafting and scouting or do you give more credit to position coaches getting these guys up to speed at a faster rate?

 

Examples include guys like norman, kk, star, shaq, funch, trai, norwell and so on.  

Raw talent or coaching?

[frash.exe]

Both

it takes a special coaching staff to be able to get everybody on the same page with Xs and Os

but you can't coach up a Haruki Nakamura to be Ed Reed. It just ain't gonna happen. Part of being a good coach or exec is knowing who does and doesn't belong on the field. Something Hurney never got while he was starting his 7th round picks that were getting athletically dominated.

[pantherj]

I don't think we have a high level of talent compared to other NFL teams. If anything we're lagging behind. The difference is Cam Newton on offense, and a good system on defense with experienced players.

The huge improvement in our team is due to Cam Newton's improved understanding of our offense. Our defense is actually on a slight decline imo.

I think our young guys are learning at the usual rate, or maybe a little slower in the case of Boston and Ealy.

Ultimately I give a lot of the credit to Cam. If we had an ordinary QB this team would be well below .500. We're hurting talent wise, and our coaches are nothing special. We have Cam, and he'd make any other team in the NFL a winner if he joined them. 

 

 

[Gin and Juice]

Neither

Every person that gets into the NFL has talent. It's comes down to those that are able to tap into it well. That's where coaching, trust and comfort come into play.

Coaches give trust which yields comfort which yields motivation and success which gives way to confidence. Confidence makes talent become greatness.

But the largest confidence builder is fitting the position. That's where the success comes from, these 53 fit the philosophy 

 

[arbnranger]

The reason why RR got coach of the year is simple.  (yet complex)

I believe he and the coaching staff do a great job of accenting the players strengths and incorporating that into the game plan taking in to account other guys strengths. 

They also do a great job of recognizing players weak spots and hiding/supporting  them as best as possible. 

[TheSpecialJuan]

yee

[t96]

It's about the coaching staff and personnel department having chemistry together, which is absolutely fascinating considering DG didn't hire any of these guys, he inherited them when he got the job. The players brought in need to fit with the coaching staff and they have. So the answer to the question is both.

[motocross_cat]

Good discussion guys, i sorta went with talent evaluation over coaching.  Cant really coach up what isnt there.  I get cam is a large part of the teams success but i think we flat out have better players than the previous few years or so.  Maybe not so much at WR but you get the idea.

[gtanaka]

Its definitely both. At the beginning of the year DG even said he thinks its the best roster we've had since he's been here. But to play the way they did this year a lot of it is from coaching too.

[t96]

I think it's very telling that we've had major contributions from players who weren't so great elsewhere. Obviously DG has hit all the early picks and all of them are extremely talented players we've added so it's certainly both but who knows how these draft picks would've fared if they were in some organization like Cleveland...

[DaveThePanther2008]

1 hour ago, thomas96 said:

It's about the coaching staff and personnel department having chemistry together, which is absolutely fascinating considering DG didn't hire any of these guys, he inherited them when he got the job. The players brought in need to fit with the coaching staff and they have. So the answer to the question is both.

Gotta be both.  Some positions take longer in the Pros than other.  RB for instance is more of a plug and play than say DE or Safety.   It isn't a coincidence that Hardy and Ealy both started to get it at the end of their 2nd season.  Norman is another example.  Egotistical know it all when he came in, until Rivera benched him for a season.

Our Free Agents are players that fit a mold and DG and his staff are excellent at finding them.

Our UDFA are players that have the tools to find our mold.  They come in and our coaching staff coaches them up.

 

[d-dave]

The biggest thing is synergy between Gman and Rivera.  By knowing how the system works, Gman can find the players they need to be successful.  I think the whole idea of being yourself goes a long way in the organization.  Instead of finding the players everyone wants, they find the best fits for guys who can play in our system effectively.  Who would have though Kurt Coleman would do what he did this season?

There is a good degree of magic, hardwork, and scheme fit that goes a long way to fielding a competitive team.  Gettleman gets the identity of the team, which makes him more effective as a GM.

Talent-wise, I don't know about that.  We did win 17 games last year. So we were talented enough.  I'm not sure how much extra talent would have pushed us past the Broncos.

[Moose Hoover]

norman - talent and coaching

kk - talent and coaching

star - talent and coaching

shaq - talent

funch - talent

trai - talent and coaching

norwell - coaching

All of these guys are being coached well, I just indicated what I think they are relying on at this point in their career. Once Shaq and Funchess get more coaching/experience, watch out. JNo used to be in the talent category as well.

[Toker Smurf]

I think both. I think talent has improved among starters (namely Cam & Luke) and player development has improved our depth. In some cases, I think both converge on one player, like Josh. He had the talent but the coaches had to help him utilize it within the system.