Unnecessary Roughness 101

[Saca312]

Just now, truthjuice said:

That's how you know it's so painfully obvious. It's like everyone sees the elephant in the room but without stirring up something, they hint that it's there.


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Yep. They literally equated that to Cam's situation and just shook their heads in dismay.

[CRA]

59 minutes ago, WarHeel said:

Example of subjectivity in the rules regarding hitting the QB?

Because all I've seen so far is them making up explanations that are inconsistent with the rules as they go along.




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the rules intentionally are made with subjective key words to be used as defense.

Rams clobber Newton in the head twice.  Those should be flagged.  Can't hit a passer in the head.  What does the NFL say, well technically they claimed it wasn't "forcible" contact to the head.  They are forced to admit there is head contact.  Forcible is the intentionally planted key word and one they go to every time he gets clocked for a play all other QBs get.  So if they deem it not forcible, they technically can claim they got it right because forcible is subjective.  They went right back to it this past week. 

I mean the fact guys launch at his head is pretty forcible but the language is purposefully drawn up to be in the eye of the beholder.

[Daddy_Uncle]

Officials need to start losing their jobs if they aren't going to be equal and fair for all players

[shaqattaq]

1 hour ago, KB_fan said:

I'm one of those who has become a lot less interested in the game.  The hits to Cam's head in week 1 and the lack of calls really upset me, and so many games seem to be affected by questionable penalties... it's really hard to not think there are biases towards / against some teams & players.  In my more rational moments I put it down to mere incompetence... but whether it's bias or incompetence, I want full-time professional refs and clearer standards.  Surely improvements can be made. 

 

agreed, it's hard be rational when its MY QB getting beat up on. But, even if there is no bias against Cam (but really there is), the inconsistency has made it so bad that I really only watch Panthers' games.

[WarHeel]

the rules intentionally are made with subjective key words to be used as defense.

Rams clobber Newton in the head twice.  Those should be flagged.  Can't hit a passer in the head.  What does the NFL say, well technically they claimed it wasn't "forcible" contact to the head.  They are forced to admit there is head contact.  Forcible is the intentionally planted key word and one they go to every time he gets clocked for a play all other QBs get.  So if they deem it not forcible, they technically can claim they got it right because forcible is subjective.  They went right back to it this past week. 

That's exactly my point. The rule states you cannot make contact with the head and neck area. "Forcible" shouldn't have any bearing over this rule. Therefore, they are throwing the rules out window and making their own justifications as they go. The rules aren't the problem. Problem #1: Inadequate officials that are obviously biased with their calls. Problem #2: Failure of upper level management/commissioner/owners to swallow their pride and admit the officials are inadequate.


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[Mother Grabber]

i agree that this feels more like an anti-cam thing, than an anti-black qb thing. there are other black qbs who aren't treated nearly as biast as cam. the bias may be racially motivated, in whole or in part, but it certainly feels directed squarely at cam, and not black qbs in general.

[CRA]

Just now, WarHeel said:

That's exactly my point. The rule states you cannot make contact with the head and neck area. "Forcible" shouldn't have any bearing over this rule. Therefore, they are throwing the rules out window and making their own justifications as they go. The rules aren't the problem. Problem #1: Inadequate officials that are obviously biased with their calls. Problem #2: Failure of upper level management/commissioner/owners to swallow their pride and admit the officials are inadequate.


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rules state you can't make "forcible" contact....doesn't say you can't make contact.

that is my point, they intentionally insert forcible (subjective) in there for this very reason.  To explain away botched calls.  It isn't just QB head shots.  NFL rules are all carefully worded so literally nothing is black and white and always has the "subjective" wording carefully placed so that they can go back to it.

I agree the 87 yr old part time refs that spend all week not giving a poo about the NFL....is a HUGE problem.  But that is only a nice slice of the problem pie.

[tiger7_88]

2 hours ago, KB_fan said:

I'm one of those who has become a lot less interested in the game.  The hits to Cam's head in week 1 and the lack of calls really upset me, and so many games seem to be affected by questionable penalties... it's really hard to not think there are biases towards / against some teams & players.  In my more rational moments I put it down to mere incompetence... but whether it's bias or incompetence, I want full-time professional refs and clearer standards.  Surely improvements can be made. 

 

I've noticed that you haven't been around as much this year and I figured that was because you were really, really busy or your interest (as you describe above) had waned or a combination of both.

And I totally 100% agree with you.  I haven't sat down and watched any other games than the Panther's this year and I used to be an annual buyer of NFL Sunday Ticket for over a decade.

[rippadonn]

Consigliere was questioned publicly.

NFL is fixing games and controlling lines for Vegas and they're not gonna have some cocky SOB ruining their gambling operations by doing stuff. 

There, I said it

[grimesgoat]

37 minutes ago, truthjuice said:

The problem is there's a constant need for the powers that be to make sure Cam knows his place. Take it how you want, but it is what it is. Russell gets the call but what people fail to understand is Russell is exactly what they want the black quarterback to be. Cam is big, strong, cocky, a freak athlete and marches to the beat of his own drum. He doesn't play like other quarterbacks, he doesn't dress like them, he doesn't talk like them, he doesn't act like them. The NFL doesn't want him as the face of their league. He wasn't supposed to be MVP, he was supposed to be a bust according to some. Then he called Ed Hocchuli out and that was the icing on the cake.


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I agree for the most part, but I'm not convinced its about race.  If there was a big strong cocky freak athlete that marches to the beat of his own drum and draws attention to himself by the way he dresses and acts, and ifs a bit of a showboat on the field that happens to be white, would he be treated this way?  Not sure we've seen a white Cam so until one comes along, we may not know the answer.

[tiger7_88]

2 hours ago, CRA said:

The fact we have 97 yr old part time refs is an utter joke. 

We need full time younger refs that eat and breath the job.  

I don't get this.  Nor do I agree with it.

Just because a guy has to go to the office during the week and balance a companies books forces him to make bad calls on Sunday?

These refs have been officiating at almost every level for over 20 years (for the majority of them).  Are high school refs full time?  Because I don't see high school refs make as many mistakes as the supposedly "high level" NFL refs.

You either know the rules and implement them without bias or you don't.  What does "full time" or "higher pay" have to do with that?  At all?  Under what realistic, full-speed conditions will these new "full time" refs be practicing during the week to give them more experience?  Because NFL practices are no longer done at full speed (or even full time) anymore.

I think the "full time" excuse for officials is just that... an excuse.  A throw-away comment to EXCUSE their horrible performance.

I remember the replacement refs from a few years ago.  Those replacements didn't have near the experience that the "professional" refs had.  What I've discovered in that time is that the current "professional" refs who have MORE TIME and MORE SALARY to encourage better performance than those replacements are just as bad as the replacements were.

The one and ONLY thing that will improve officiating in this league and in every league for that matter isn't "full time" or "higher pay"...

It's ACCOUNTABILITY.

When you're not accountable for your performance, these are the results that you get.

[truthjuice]

I agree for the most part, but I'm not convinced its about race.  If there was a big strong cocky freak athlete that marches to the beat of his own drum and draws attention to himself by the way he dresses and acts, and ifs a bit of a showboat on the field that happens to be white, would he be treated this way?  Not sure we've seen a white Cam so until one comes along, we may not know the answer.

I can answer that and say no, it wouldn't happen. Take out the cocky and dress, Aaron Rogers discount doublecheck move is a showboating move but Aaron gets the call. So yes, I think the white QB would be handled way differently. He'd be seen as being passionate.

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[tiger7_88]

1 hour ago, CRA said:

Many of the rules make a point to outline how there is always a subjective component to it.  Therefore it makes too many of the rules gray and not actually black and white. 

That is why after all these bogus calls Dean Blandino will defend them because he goes right to the subjective element 

 

Quote

"According to Rule 7, Section 2, Article 1 of the NFL's rulebook: “A defender must pull up when a runner begins a feet-first slide. This does not mean that all contact by a defender is illegal. If a defender has already committed himself, and the contact is unavoidable, it is not a foul unless the defender commits some other act, such as helmet-to-helmet contact or by driving his forearm or shoulder into the head or neck area of the runner.”

 

I don't see much gray area in the rule above.

Where, according to Rule 7, Section 2, Article 1, of the NFL's rulebook, does it say the hit must be "forcible"?

You are falling for their distraction.  Mission accomplished for them.

[OriginalPantherDan]

1 hour ago, Cookie Lyon said:

The refs see Cam as an uppity person. A lot of people claim that racism isn't involved because other black QB's like Russell Wilson get calls, but he gets calls because he's fake and robotic and acts the way the NFL thinks black QB's should act. Plus, Cam not getting calls is payback for calling out Ed Hochuli. Ever since that day, the NFL has been out to get him. It's so obvious.

This is what I've believed all along. Racism? Maybe, but doesn't explain why other AA QBs get treated fairly. Only explanation that fits perfectly is this, and unfortunately, you can't put that genie back in the bottle. Cam has doomed himself to unfair treatment for the duration of his concussion-shortened career.