2016 losses recap.(Shula haters you have some explaining to do)

[KillerKat]

1 minute ago, panther4life said:

• st and 10 at TB 20

  (0:09 - 2nd) (Shotgun) PENALTY on CAR-M.Remmers, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at TB 20 - No Play.

•  

  (0:10 - 2nd) Timeout #3 by TB at 00:10.

• 1st and 15 at TB 25

  (0:10 - 2nd) (Shotgun) D.Anderson pass incomplete deep middle to G.Olsen (K.Alexander).

• 2nd and 15 at TB 25

  (0:05 - 2nd) G.Gano 43 yard field goal is No Good, Wide Left, Center-J.Jansen, Holder-A.Lee.

I'll chalk this one up to bad memory by you.

Thanks for making my point

[NJPanthers12]

3 minutes ago, panther4life said:

• st and 10 at TB 20

  (0:09 - 2nd) (Shotgun) PENALTY on CAR-M.Remmers, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at TB 20 - No Play.

•  

  (0:10 - 2nd) Timeout #3 by TB at 00:10.

• 1st and 15 at TB 25

  (0:10 - 2nd) (Shotgun) D.Anderson pass incomplete deep middle to G.Olsen (K.Alexander).

• 2nd and 15 at TB 25

  (0:05 - 2nd) G.Gano 43 yard field goal is No Good, Wide Left, Center-J.Jansen, Holder-A.Lee.

I'll chalk this one up to bad memory by you.

• 1st and Goal at TB 1

  (8:45 - 4th) D.Anderson pass short right intended for G.Olsen INTERCEPTED by B.Grimes at TB -5. Touchback.

no clue what you're talking about

[panther4life]

8 minutes ago, NJPanthers12 said:

• 1st and Goal at TB 1

  (8:45 - 4th) D.Anderson pass short right intended for G.Olsen INTERCEPTED by B.Grimes at TB -5. Touchback.

no clue what you're talking about

Thanks for correcting me on that one and providing an actual example. I didn't start this thread to pick a fight. In hindsight the title may look it appear that way. I just can't blame all of our struggles on Shula. I never said he's a genius or anything like that, however I feel he is good enough to take us to the promise land. If others feel differently than you can go ahead and write of 2017 as a blown season.

Looking back, that was the play I mentioned in the OP where I said Anderson had 2 options. Benjamin or Tolbert. He chose wrong and forced it into double coverage.

 

[Saca312]

Compare amount of times Cam audibled in 2015 VS 2016.

There's your answer.

[panthers55]

9 minutes ago, Adb6368 said:

It's not about what the final score is, it's about how you get to the final score people have complaints about. Throwing the ball on MNF with your backup QB inside the 2? Yea... maybe not such a great idea. How about throwing on the first play of MNF when you've benched your MVP QB? Yea... maybe not such a great idea.

Not saying the players don't deserve their fair share of the blame but with known deficiencies in your roster sometimes you ask yourself why the coaches don't see what is blatantly obvious to the defense.

Again who decided to throw the ball? Shula or Anderson. Who opted for the pass play instead of changing it up as they are trained to do based on the defense?

That is the problem here. When there is an issue, Shula sucks. When the quarterback audibilized as Shula thought them to do, it was in spite of Shula. When they don't, it is Shula's fault again. What is at fault is the logic used to scapegoat him for everything.

[panther4life]

3 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

Compare amount of times Cam audibled in 2015 VS 2016.

There's your answer.

If its that simple then why did Cam get away from calling audibles? Or do you not think Cam has enough clout to ask for a coaching change if he believes Shula is holding him back? Gentleman wasn't afraid of parting ways with Steve Smith because he thought he was hindering Cam's development.

[juliosantos]

His conservative bullshatt playcalls caused us alot of games like dumb plays like running up the middle with fozzy

[Fox007]

Watch every NFL game you're able to at least 5 per week then see for yourself the difference between good and bad calls and good and ball OCs.

Can't have this argument when all most of you do is watch the Panthers then turn the channel. You're comparing Shula to ...nothing at all.

[Panthers8969]

OP doesn't watch the games 

[panthers55]

13 minutes ago, JawnyBlaze said:

It's easy for the Shula apologists to make claims like this because his is a subtle effect on the whole offense that handicaps it.  He's not out there fumbling balls or dropping passes himself, he just doesn't put our players in a very good position to make plays.  

His run game plan is often not bad, or even quite good in some cases.  His passing game plan is atrocious. Always has been. "Oh but our passing game put up x number of yards" or "we got x number of points".  That is the effect of our mv fuging p QB dragging this offense along.  There's not really much of a quantifiable stat you can use to prove or disprove that.  It's just one of those things you either see it, or you don't.  

Once in a while you'll have the SF playoff game a few years ago that was 4 straight runs up the middle against a great front 7 that was obviously having no effect and you can say "see? Shula is fuging dumb"  or flea flickers to Jericho freaking cotchery but more often than not it's just watching the flow of the game and noticing a pattern of ineptitude.  Other teams have mentioned it.  Wade Phillips all but came out and said "yea, their OC is a dumbass" after the super bowl.  By some accounts (I haven't seen the source quotes myself, so I won't testify to the veracity of the sentiment) Gettleman has seen it as well, but Ron has protected Shula.  This will always be a debate until we get rid of him and hopefully get a legit OC with the same or at least similar offensive talent.  Just like some people will always believe Cam is overrated and just a running QB and nothing will change their minds, some will always believe Shula is a competent OC. 

It couldn't be the passing game sucks because our receivers are bottom five as a group, right?  Sure Cam bailed us out in 2015 with a pretty good line but played badly in 2016 due to a horrible beat up line. And no Wade didn't call him a dumbass, the comment was we did the exact same think in the Superbowl we did the rest of the season that netted us 15 wins and an offense that scored over 30 points a game. Gee I wonder why we didn't.make major adjustments? And Gettleman has never blamed the offense or said he wanted Shula gone. One beat writer speculated about it and suddenly it is fact. Some people will blame Shula for everything regardless of the facts to the contrary.

[Chardee MacDennis]

It's the frustration of calling timeouts because the play clock is running down way too often. It's a waste of a timeout and points to a lack of discipline and organization with getting the play called in time. And it happens all the time.

It's watching the two TE formation on 3rd and 7, with only 2 WRs both lined up outside. And 1 RB. And one TE plus RB stay in to block, one TE runs straight down the field 4 yards and turns around, and the WRs both run out 5 yards and cross or hitch. When we need 7 yards. And every single potential option to pick up the first is running their routes shorter than the line to gain. Makes zero sense.

It's the 3rd and short plays where we go 3 wide, 1 RB and one TE. And we need 2 yards. And cam is dropping back 7 steps while everyone runs fly routes 20 yards down field.

It's the amount of times I yell "WTF!?" at my tv during games because the play called on offense either A) makes no sense to the in-game scenario or B) puts the players in a position to fail or C) everyone from the announcers to the other teams players know what is coming or D) takes too long to get to the field from the box.

It's a combination of factors that point me to the belief that Shula needs to go. Why is Cam getting hit so often while in the pocket? Because the protection sucks. But also, no changes are made to the game plan. He is still dropping back 5-7 steps regularly with our poo protection, and therefore he's getting sacked/ pressured/having to scramble more often. Why continue to drop him back so far and run these extremely slow developing plays when there are other effective ways to move the ball down to field.

Also, it's the inconsistency. Some drives are really well called, while others are straight head scratchers. And, when the head coach comes out and says in the off-season that the offense needs to evolve, clearly the OC should be on the hot seat.

Sent using the amazing CarolinaHuddle mobile app

[panther4life]

8 minutes ago, Chardee MacDennis said:

It's the frustration of calling timeouts because the play clock is running down way too often. It's a waste of a timeout and points to a lack of discipline and organization with getting the play called in time. And it happens all the time.


 

 

I feel the exact same frustrations with the timeout management myself. One thing I am not clear on this, the communication device from the OC to the QB is cut off with 15 seconds left. To me, 15 seconds seems like plenty of time to get the playcalled and everyone lined up. 

Either way, whatever is causing the problem there needs to stop.

 

[E CaT PanTHer 2]

I blame most of our losses on the huge injury bug that decimated our team, prevented us from having continuity, especially on the offensive line, and the overall inability of our WR's to get separation. 

no offense will thrive given those circumstances.

Shula has fielded a top 5 offense before, and I believe he'll do it again next year. 

[shulasmyhero]

Shula has consistently shown a lack of situational awareness and inability/unwillingness to adapt in game.  why do you suppose so many games that seemed to be in hand, untimately went to the wire in 2015? Opposing coaches adjusted in game, Shula did not.

The 2015 season has been the exception under Shula, not the rule.  Just look at his results over his career.

Short fields due to turnover margin and a line that stayed intact for the entire season giving just enough time for the long pass plays to develop were what led to 15-1, not a high-powered offensive juggernaut. 

Redzone offense continues to be a problem because deep passes are off the table, only thing he can come up with is a hand off up the middle or Cam keeps it...

When defenses rush like its a jailbreak, there are no screens, draw plays, quick slants to keep them honest.  It's been a 15+ yard pass play, a hand off to Tolbert or an end around to Ginn (which wasn't generally a bad play due to Ginns speed).

Shula will be Ron's downfall.  The thing Ron needs most on his coaching staff is someone who supplements his biggest area of weakness, Shula doesn't give him that.

The players have responsibility for failure too.  Poor execution, injuries and lack of focus were all issues in 2016.  Coaches bear more of that responsibility.

If we are simply pointing to 2015 as the case for Shula, then we're missing an entire career of evidence that supports the belief that he is a below average coach and if you really take a hard look at 2015, his offense wasn't as responsible for the success as it first appears on paper.