Still don't want a RB in round 1 for a number of reasons

[Proudiddy]

I feel the same Cracka...  Since the league shifted to more pass-centric tendencies, the value at the RB position has completely flipped.  And for good reasons - pretty much all of the ones you listed.  You can literally spend your picks on any other position and get more value out of it, no matter the round...  odds are, that player is giving you several mlre years of production that a RB just can't.

I really think the late 90s-early 2000s Broncos are what changed my mind about offensive philosophy.  They had that string of guys that came out of nowhere and they were amazing in their system (off the top of my head, I remember Mike Anderson, Reuben Droughns).  Point being, you can get so much better value at the position later in the draft if you pick correctly, that it's hard to justify or feel comfortable in taking one in the first round or so.

That being said, there are transcendent freaks of nature that make it worth the risk because they defy the odds, but they are once in a blue moon and I dont see any of these RBs as that type of player.  My preference would be to go after a guy like Foreman, Hood, or Kamara later.  

I really hope we stay away from them early, but I'll hope for the best if we don't.

 

[Shocker]

I think Coughlin will take defense and pass on Nette.    He doesnt take RBs that high IMO.

[SetfreexX]

4 minutes ago, Shocker said:

I think Coughlin will take defense and pass on Nette.    He doesnt take RBs that high IMO.

This ^ 

In NYG under Coughlin it was always mid-late round picks at HB, the higher picks were all catered to the defensive side of the ball with a premium on pass rushers. 

With Blake, and one of the worst run blocking OL's in football, along with Ivory, Yeldon, and Grant it makes zero sense to take a HB at #4. 

I personally see them going defense, or trading back. 

[t96]

2 hours ago, nctarheel0619 said:

I just don't want McCaffrey.  I would rather have a defensive player than that dude.  

Only RB worthy of a first round pick is Fournette. Mixon close but with off field too, wouldn't consider him until later.

[nctarheel0619]

2 minutes ago, thomas96 said:

Only RB worthy of a first round pick is Fournette. Mixon close but with off field too, wouldn't consider him until later.

He can still be a first rounder.  That off the field stuff isn't remotely as bad as Dalvin Cook's.  Mixon actually paid off the female last Saturday.

[Darvinsun]

1 hour ago, panther4life said:

I understand where you're coming from.But maybe this will make you feel better if you look at it this way.  

 

Deangelo was drafted in 06 and is still productive in the league. Stewart 2 years after him and still a huddle favorite. So those 2 kind of go against points 1 and 2 that you made. 

3. Injury concern is valid and a higher risk but as we saw with Benjamin and Butler early, injuries can happen at any position.

4. The common denominator in consistent playoff teams is there head coach and QB combo. Steelers and Seahawks have always boasted a good run game a defense in their most consistent years and those pop in to mind immediately. Sure there's more.

5. I don't think it's fair to worry about Fournettes 2nd contract when we have him for 4 years under a rookie deal and a 5th year option that will be reasonable as well. 

 

My thing is that we have a couple of positions that need to be addressed more pressingly...Rb is a position of need but not right now we can draft help in later rounds..I would like a blocking TE whom is diverse can help in run and pass and also catch. It helps with line and receiving, WR we have no speed and droppers for WR but we have added additionally players and their is no outstanding receiver in this draft for real..like a julio or obj, a brown..DE need a rush have old players will need help, SS I think we may have gotten that with Adams picked up but unsure..last RB stewart is still good but need someone to give him a breather and block for him.Tackle would be number 1 but I do not think there is one we could get thats 1st rd talent.

[Ricky Spanish]

1 hour ago, panther4life said:

I understand where you're coming from.But maybe this will make you feel better if you look at it this way.  

 

Deangelo was drafted in 06 and is still productive in the league. Stewart 2 years after him and still a huddle favorite. So those 2 kind of go against points 1 and 2 that you made. 

3. Injury concern is valid and a higher risk but as we saw with Benjamin and Butler early, injuries can happen at any position.

4. The common denominator in consistent playoff teams is there head coach and QB combo. Steelers and Seahawks have always boasted a good run game a defense in their most consistent years and those pop in to mind immediately. Sure there's more.

5. I don't think it's fair to worry about Fournettes 2nd contract when we have him for 4 years under a rookie deal and a 5th year option that will be reasonable as well. 

 

Deangelo is not consistently productive, got fat and complacent after his big contract, and was not worth a first round pick. He is currently a backupStewart is not healthy enough to be worth a first round pick in my personal opinion. Still love the guy.

Yes, injuries can happen to anyone, but my argument is that it happens to RBs far more often than any other position. Using pick #8 on an injury concern is risky and ill-advised to me.

Yes, QB play is far more important, and we have a good one, so why waste a pick so high on a position that will not benefit him when we can get similar production out of a round 2-3 guy? Use that pick on a DE, who will help get the ball back to our QB, or a TE, who will help block for the QB, the RBs, and catch passes for our QB.

It's incredibly fair to worry about the 2nd contract of anyone we draft. With the way the CBA is currently structured, RBs have gotten the shaft. They get paid peanuts for their best years, and then after the 5th year option, when they are around 26-27, their play will statistically start to decline making their second contract a bust. That's why you go later round guys without the 5th round option. It benefits everyone from a contract standpoint. Not only are they cheaper off the bat, they will get paid sooner and they'll be able to live up to their second contract for a year or two before the inevitable decline of their production when they hit 28. 

[t96]

2 minutes ago, nctarheel0619 said:

He can still be a first rounder.  That off the field stuff isn't remotely as bad as Dalvin Cook's.  Mixon actually paid off the female last Saturday.

Personally if I were in a GM position, I wouldn't really consider Mixon's off field incident that much at all. It's not really very relevant at this point. I just think he's borderline even without the off field. He's a solid all around player, kind of like McCaffrey to me, but a better runner and worse receiver. Just not the type of true guaranteed franchise back like Fournette. Fournette has future HoF written all over him. Nobody else even comes close to that.

[nctarheel0619]

1 minute ago, thomas96 said:

Personally if I were in a GM position, I wouldn't really consider Mixon's off field incident that much at all. It's not really very relevant at this point. I just think he's borderline even without the off field. He's a solid all around player, kind of like McCaffrey to me, but a better runner and worse receiver. Just not the type of true guaranteed franchise back like Fournette. Fournette has future HoF written all over him. Nobody else even comes close to that.

 

I disagree, I think he can be better than McCaffrey.  I also think he's a better receiver.  OU had a 4th and 22 in the Bowl game vs Auburn.  They called a tailback pass out to Mixon after Baker rolled out.  He knew Mixon was going to catch that pass.  Got over 25 yards on that play.  Mixon's hands are really impressive.  

[OldNorthPowell]

If we go defense in the 1st round it will be 5 of 6 drafts. Eventually you have to get your FRANCHISE QB some elite weapons.

[panther4life]

8 minutes ago, Cracka McNasty said:

 

Again, i understand your reasoning and it makes sense. However when picking at 8, super important to make sure you find a cornerstone level talent.

My big board goes like this.

1.Garrett -DE

2.Thomas -DE

3.Fournette RB

4. Corey Davis WR

5. Jamal Adams SS

6. Malik Hooker FS

At this point I'm looking to trade back a few spots but if we can't..

7. Jonathan Allen 

8. OJ Howard 

 

I could have put a CB up there too but I feel like the depth of the draft won't suffer as much as dropoff as the other positions would. 

Day 2 guys high on my list would be.

CB- Tabor,Awuzie, Sidney Jones

DE- Jordan Willis, Tarell Basham

TE - Evan Engram

So as you can see I'm totally fine with not getting a RB in the first 2 days this year but just for different reasons than you.

Just curios, do you have a top 8 in mind that does not include a RB?

 

 

[posthumecaver]

When was the last time DG ever selected somebody that draft expert are told him to do so, I am sure he would have a surprise in his sleeve and we will come out something else then a RB in this draft because I also don't believe that DG will give 5th year option to a RB.

[Ricky Spanish]

15 minutes ago, panther4life said:

Again, i understand your reasoning and it makes sense. However when picking at 8, super important to make sure you find a cornerstone level talent.

My big board goes like this.

1.Garrett -DE

2.Thomas -DE

3.Fournette RB

4. Corey Davis WR

5. Jamal Adams SS

6. Malik Hooker FS

At this point I'm looking to trade back a few spots but if we can't..

7. Jonathan Allen 

8. OJ Howard 

 

I could have put a CB up there too but I feel like the depth of the draft won't suffer as much as dropoff as the other positions would. 

Day 2 guys high on my list would be.

CB- Tabor,Awuzie, Sidney Jones

DE- Jordan Willis, Tarell Basham

TE - Evan Engram

So as you can see I'm totally fine with not getting a RB in the first 2 days this year but just for different reasons than you.

Just curios, do you have a top 8 in mind that does not include a RB?

 

 

I don't and I agree that Fournette is the best RB available, and strictly based on talent alone warrants a top 10 pick. My only problem with him is that he's a RB and his play style will likely get him injured.

[raleigh-panther]

46 minutes ago, Cracka McNasty said:

Deangelo is not consistently productive, got fat and complacent after his big contract, and was not worth a first round pick. He is currently a backupStewart is not healthy enough to be worth a first round pick in my personal opinion. Still love the guy.

Yes, injuries can happen to anyone, but my argument is that it happens to RBs far more often than any other position. Using pick #8 on an injury concern is risky and ill-advised to me.

Yes, QB play is far more important, and we have a good one, so why waste a pick so high on a position that will not benefit him when we can get similar production out of a round 2-3 guy? Use that pick on a DE, who will help get the ball back to our QB, or a TE, who will help block for the QB, the RBs, and catch passes for our QB.

It's incredibly fair to worry about the 2nd contract of anyone we draft. With the way the CBA is currently structured, RBs have gotten the shaft. They get paid peanuts for their best years, and then after the 5th year option, when they are around 26-27, their play will statistically start to decline making their second contract a bust. That's why you go later round guys without the 5th round option. It benefits everyone from a contract standpoint. Not only are they cheaper off the bat, they will get paid sooner and they'll be able to live up to their second contract for a year or two before the inevitable decline of their production when they hit 28. 

I don't disagree but we do have a closing window for several players  we need a difference maker offensively, I hope for Howard as that revamped OL isn't great and the guy can  block

i have serious doubts about Maccafrey holding up in the NFL or Cam, who struggles with touch and accuracy on shorter passes, hitting him in stride which sets him up for being blasted by linebackers, throw in Shula, and we know the rest

DL is needed, yes, but they don't always pan out in the first round either 

it comes down to this, the Panthers have cast their fate with Newton,.

They have done a poor job keeping him upright or giving him weapons.

Who do they really have that any defense schemes for, and the answer is Olsen.  Add to it, they lost six games by 3 points or less and therein lies the answer and hopefully they spend one late pick on a kicker.