Pros and Cons of Hurney

[vanilla B]

2 minutes ago, Cyberjag said:

I think you must be pretty young, or not a fan of the team for too long, to not understand the contrast between what Hurney did and what Seifert/Capers did before him.

I don't know of anyone that's happy Hurney's back, but it's probably not the disaster people are predicting.

I'm well aware of what they did but not sure what they have to do with this discussion?  I was replying to Sanjay regarding his blind optimism for how Hurney had magically become a quality GM with no supporting evidence.  I hope it's not a disaster as well and that my pessimism is proven wrong, but I don't see a reason to think this is a positive move based off what happened during his last tenure here.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

43 minutes ago, yasuhara2241 said:

Pros: Knows staff and many players. Good history on 1st round stars. 

Cons: Too loyal to own players, crazy draft trades mortgaging future, bad at rounds 2 - 7 and undrafted FAs, doesn't find too many quality low end FAs, bad negotiating contracts, looks at present team and less at the future ramifications. 

Even his one legendary "pro" is a con.

What round requires the least amount of competence on the part of a GM to select a talented player?

The first round.

Even then, Hurney traded away our first round pick twice and was hardly flawless on his selections when he didn't

For example:

Jeff Otah:

Quote

 

CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- Breaking down the trade of three draft picks to Philadelphia to select offensive tackle Jeff Otah in 2008, one of the riskiest moves by the Carolina Panthers over the past 25 years:

Round/overall selection: First/19th.

Did the risk pay off: Absolutely not. The Panthers gave Philadelphia their second- and fourth-round picks in 2008 and first-round pick in 2009 to get Pittsburgh’s Otah, considered one of the top tackles in the draft. Then-general manager Marty Hurney felt the organization was a piece or two away from competing for the Super Bowl and that Otah could be vital to the ground-oriented offense. Otah played well at right tackle for two years, starting 25 games in his first two seasons. He then developed knee problems and missed 31 of his last 35 games. The Panthers attempted to trade him to the New York Jetsfor a conditional seventh-round pick in 2012, but it was rescinded when Otah failed his physical. Carolina ultimately released him. The Eagles parlayed the extra first-round pick in 2009 into a trade with Buffalo for offensive tackle Jason Peters, who went on to become an eight-time Pro Bowl selection. Buffalo took Philadelphia’s pick (28th) from Carolina and selected center Eric Wood, who was selected to the Pro Bowl this past season. The Panthers made matters worse in 2009 by trading their 2010 first-round pick for San Francisco’s 2009 second-round pick. They used that on linebacker Everette Brown, who was waived in 2011 after starting three games and collecting six sacks in two seasons. Carolina never made the Super Bowl with Otah. It went 12-4 in 2008, and then lost its first-round playoff game to Arizona. The Panthers went 8-8, 2-14 and 6-10 the next three years.  http://www.espn.com/blog/carolina-panthers/post/_/id/20297/panthers-give-up-way-too-much-for-tackle-jeff-otah-in-2008

 

 

[Seltzer]

32 minutes ago, Catufb85 said:

With the unexpected firing of Gettleman on Monday and the hiring of Hurney as of today as the interim GM.  I have mixed feelings about it all.  Because of my loyalty to my beloved Panthers (PSL seats since 1997) I have to say i was utterly shocked by the surprised firing of Gettleman.  I bought into the "In Gettleman we trust" one because i think he makes harsh and sometimes questionable decisions when it came to personnel.  However, I do believe overall body of worked reviewed, he did a good job here at Carolina during his stay.  He complied a talented team that went 15-1 and came close to what should've been the young franchise's second Super Bowl (Fug the Patriots.)  What my opinion happened was not that he wasn't good at his eye for talent or getting us out of "Cap Hell" from Hurney's spending habits, but when the most crucial decisions that needed to be made whether right or wrong his portrayal of those decisions, right or wrong, and his ego is what ultimately got him fired, IMO.  How he handled some of the Panthers all time best players, Smitty, Norman, DeAngelo, etc. just came down to ego more than i think money and CAP space. Now, one can sit here and say "shoulda woulda coulda" or well those three guys were "cancers" to the locker room, whatever.  The handling of arguably the best wide receiver (franchises leader), the best running back (franchise leader) and the best cornerback our franchise as had in many years waived, released, forced out, etc. whatever you think of it was handled wrong. Not saying ultimately wrong but handled incorrectly, again IMO. 

This is why all of these previous Panthers players are openly attacking Gettleman after the firing news.  However, Devil's advocate would say "Well, maybe these guys are just butt hurt" or "It was the best move because they are old and overpaid" well maybe.  But, you have to wonder if more and more players are coming out after the firing their stories and hatred for Gettleman has to gain some kind of warrant.

Now, on to Hurney, we can all admit that there are some glaring decisions his made as far as personnel and contracts and so now that were as sour as a blue Warhead (for all you 80's kids) but lets look at the major acquisitions and draft picks he did hit home runs on:

Hurney's best moves:

Draft: Julius Peppers, Thomas Davis, Jordan Gross, DeAngelo, JStew, Chris Gamble, Ryan Kahlil, Charles Johnson

Free Agent Sigings: Jake, Ricky Proehl, Ken Lucas, Mike Wahle and few others i didn't feel like listing.

I think Marty's downfall was his management of Cap space.  Every hangs over him the Everrtt Brown and Armanti Edwards draft picks as the catalyst to their negative opinion.

I think Marty was the best short term and short notice candidate.  I think he would make a great President, but think we should look for another long term GM candidate.

I think this team that G-Man put in place for this year is going to be a good one and definitely competitive.  My slightest concern is with the contract extensions coming up hopefully Marty has learned from his mistakes.

Keep Pounding.

 

Most well-said post yet I've seen about this.  And I 100% percent agree with you on Hurney replacing Morrison long-term.  I honestly wonder if someone like Hurney were President (or Morrison still here) and a guy like Beane still here to round out some of Gettleman's rough edges, maybe it could have worked.  Should've, Would've, Could've.  And no one knows JR's thinking b/c he won't talk (which is a mistake in my opinion, even for a die-hard and long-term PSL owner like me).

Anyway, Gettleman was unafraid to make tough decisions and stuck to his principles.  I will always respect him for that.

[Jmac]

Zero pros. Just flash back pre 2013 and remember what kind of shatstorm this franchise was in. Terrible contracts, lousy drafting after the first round (most people could pick a player in round 1), no depth and no cap space. Leopards don't change their spots. JR got his hand puppet back.

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[NanuqoftheNorth]

42 minutes ago, vanilla B said:

Hurney didn't adapt or hone his craft over his 12 years he already spent with the Panthers.  His one quality he was said to have was being a cap guru, but then he destroyed our cap.  He had plenty of chances and he set this franchise back dramatically, what has he done to show that he's all of a sudden a completely different GM that got better at scouting and negotiating?

Nothing.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

14 minutes ago, Jmac said:

JR got his hand puppet back.

This^^^

[imminent rogaine]

22 minutes ago, Johnny Rockets said:

According to J Person - all 6 team captains were acquired by Hurney. 

Fair enough but you would expect that since, naturally, it was Hurney that drafted our most tenured players ie the younger the player, the less likely they are a captain. Its quite possible that some DG draftees are captains after people like Kahlil, CJ, and TD are gone.

[Hogmolliesmaht]

1 hour ago, The Huddler said:

To me, its not so much hurney

 

 

its the complete backtrack we took from a conpetent GM back to a yes man. The SAME yesman. You cant backtrack any harder than that  

Just proves we as an organization do not take winning seriously enough to get past the feelings of our older vets.  We are left with good soft feelings instead of the thrill of winning championships. 

 

 

I'm hoping and praying this is not true and that Gettleman just did a bad thing unrelated to football that JR doesn't want to make public. Otherwise, we're boned.

[trueblue]

There are some fuzzy recollections around here on several fronts.

#1. Clausen was a mid to late 1st in most mock drafts.. It was viewed as a steal pick at the time by most pundits.. He sucked.. That's the way it goes some times

#2. The Otah trade was steep.. but he was damn good those first 2 seasons.. Injuries.. Thats the way it goes some times#.

#3. Newton.. Credit where credit was due.. back in 2011 this was not a slam dunk Andrew Luck pick.. They made the correct choice.. Hell NFL.com headline was:

Panthers take a chance, use No. 1 pick on QB Newton

There were plenty of questions about the pick.. But it paid off in a big way.

 

Now I will concede.. The Contracts.. CJ (bidding against yourself), DeAngelo, Godfrey, Delhomme... etc... were awful.. Terrible draft trade history, and his inability to make a 2nd round pick (other than Kalil and Richard Marshall).

 

All I can say is I hope he's learned from his mistakes... Or we will see a 7 year, 56 mill extension for TD

[ickmule]

1 hour ago, Bogart said:

Dude, you can polish this turd all you want but you cannot get the smell off of it and in the end is still a turd.  But be my guest and continue to try to rationalize it because it's so funny to watch.

Perfect post ^^^^^^^^^^^

JR has lost whatever mind he had left. Seriously the minority owners need to oust his ass. 

 

[yasuhara2241]

1 hour ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

Even his one legendary "pro" is a con.

What round requires the least amount of competence on the part of a GM to select a talented player?

The first round.

Even then, Hurney traded away our first round pick twice and was hardly flawless on his selections when he didn't

For example:

Jeff Otah:

 

Eh, I don't expect any GM to hit on every 1st round pick. I do hate the fact he traded away future 1st round picks so often. 

[NanuqoftheNorth]

6 minutes ago, yasuhara2241 said:

Eh, I don't expect any GM to hit on every 1st round pick. I do hate the fact he traded away future 1st round picks so often. 

Agreed, expecting someone to hit on every first round is unrealistic.  

Hurney's picks in the first round are the only thing his supporters can hang their hats on after 12 years.  In all other aspects of the job he was an utter failure.

The very concept of how the draft works should be evidence enough of Hurney's failure as a GM.

The worst team gets the highest pick.

Where was Cam picked again?

Somehow after a decade on the job Hurney managed to outdo the Cleveland Browns management when it came to incompetence.

[Toolbox]

Hurney cannot draft past the 1st round to save his damn life... why JR why??

[Cpt slay a ho]

I just hope he's learned from his mistakes, still hoping he's only interim and we look for a upgrade from both him and DG


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