Whip em out, boys. Fluff piece on the Panthers from MMQB

[OneBadCat]

1 hour ago, stbugs said:

Quotes like this get me excited. You just feel like Shula and Dorsey rode Cam making those extra effort plays by himself not due to design. Now that we have the playmakers who can turn a dump off into a huge play they can work on Cam using those outlets to extend drives. As awesome as those plays are, there’s just as many drive killers. I’m looking forward to this year just to see the offense. It’s an embarrassment of riches if we maintain the health. We lost Stewart and gained CJ. CMC is in his second year after looking so much better in the second half. We get back Olsen who barely played but like CMC was huge in the playoff game. We get Funchess healthy. We lost KB but replaced him with Smith, Moore and Wright. We get two healthy burners in Byrd and Samuel who both looked like they were getting it when healthy as well. Knock on woods, but if we stay healthy this offense is way better than last year and better than 2015. 2015 was high scoring, but yards per play we weren’t top 10. Turnovers and just amazing efficiency helped. This offense can easily be better than that one. 

 

Yeah that quote you took is exactly why Cam is the way he is. That's why his ratings and such hover around average. Because he believes he can make any play happen at any moment. If I was as talented as Cam I might believe I could too lol.

[mc52beast]

I keep forgetting that we finally have an OC who doesn’t have his head planted in his a**

 

Interesting to see what Shula does with Barkley

[FakePlasticTrees]

I am more interested in preseason games this season than any prior season (with the possible exception of Cam's first season).

A new system with new weapons creates a new excitement and higher expectations.

[pantherking15]

If you watch other team's offenses, you really notice how many screen/check down passes they complete because the Panthers offense just has so few of them. If our WR talent and Norv enable Cam to get the same number of easy completions plus YAC, he can no doubt be a 64-65% passer with 95+ passer rating average. Then, watch all the talking heads in the media do a 180 on Cam just because they put so much stock in the box score stats without considering the context each QB is in.

[Cary Kollins]

4 minutes ago, FakePlasticTrees said:

I am more interested in preseason games this season than any prior season (with the possible exception of Cam's first season).

 

 

I still remember exactly where I was seeing Cam's first preseason game and his first pass, a laser to Brandon Lafell for a first down. It moved.

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, Woodie said:

I don't see how this is fluff at all.  It's an informative piece on what the Turner's plan on doing to improve Cam's efficiency and maximize his talent.   

Wasn't somebody already supposed to be doing that?

I seriously have begun to question whether Ken Dorsey actually did anything that could correctly be referred to as "coaching". Even Shula as an OC seems to have been comfortable with just telling Cam "okay, do what you do".

It's disappointing to think that all this talk about him having a plan on each play is something new.

[Woodie]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

Wasn't somebody already supposed to be doing that?

I seriously have begun to question whether Ken Dorsey actually did anything that could correctly be referred to as "coaching". Even Shula as an OC seems to have been comfortable with just telling Cam "okay, do what you do".

It's disappointing to think that all this talk about him having a plan on each play is something new.

I think, reading between the lines (not just this article, but everything I have read since they were hired), that the Turner's don't think Cam was coached very well at all.  And it's becoming more clear just how right they are.  Nothing they are doing or planning is revolutionary, but for whatever reason, didn't happen with Shula and Dorsey overseeing Cam's development. 

I get the sense that Cam just didn't have the respect for Shula and Dorsey that he does for Norv.  I believe he liked them, but it's almost like parents that are too buddy, buddy with their children and the kids don't take them seriously when the parents try to teach or discipline them.  But Norv has the success and achievements that make him a person worth listening to, and he's a strong enough leader to demand Cam's respect and attention...which I honestly believe is exactly what Cam needs to help him take the next step as a QB.      

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, Woodie said:

I think, reading between the lines (not just this article, but everything I have read since they were hired), that the Turner's don't think Cam was coached very well at all.  And it's becoming more clear just how right they are.  Nothing they are doing or planning is revolutionary, but for whatever reason, didn't happen with Shula and Dorsey overseeing his development. 

I get the sense that Cam just didn't have the respect for Shula and Dorsey that he does for Norv.  I believe he liked them, but it's almost like parents that are too buddy, buddy with their children and the kids don't take them seriously when the parents try to teach or discipline them.  But Norv has the success and achievements that make him a person worth listening to, and he's a strong enough leader to demand Cam's respect and attention...which I honestly believe is exactly what Cam needs to help him take the next step as a QB.      

All perfectly logical...

Let's be real though: Regardless of their level of achievement, if Newton didn't respect his previous coaches, doesn't at least some of the blame for that have to fall on Ron Rivera?

[Woodie]

15 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

All perfectly logical...

Let's be real though: Regardless of their level of achievement, if Newton didn't respect his previous coaches, doesn't at least some of the blame for that have to fall on Ron Rivera?

I think that's a gray area.  First of all, even if Cam didn't respect them the same way he does Norv (I think their relationship was fine, I just don't feel like Cam felt they could teach him much - but I don't think he was overtly disrespectful either), I doubt he went around talking to people about it, so it's the type of thing a HC may not pick up on. 

Sure, Rivera is the leader of the team, but he's not an offensive coach, and likely deferred to Shula for most offensive matters (just as most defensive oriented coaches defer to their OC, and vice versa).  Now, you could say that hiring/keeping Shula too long falls on Rivera.  And while that may be true, once that decision was made, as head coach, he needed to let his coaches coach the way they saw fit.   

If Rivera had an offensive background, then maybe he could have stepped in and helped nudge things along.  But as a defensive guy, he really didn't have the required experience to fully understand the nuances of how to best train a young QB.  He had to trust his coaching staff.  And to be fair, Cam is a unique QB, so there really wasn't a playbook on how to best develop a guy like him. 

However, while Rivera could have made the switch earlier, based on all the injuries to Cam the last few years along with having one of the most limited arsenals of weapons in the league, it's understandable that Rivera could believe Cam and the offense were ready to turn the corner with health and an influx of offensive talent.  But once it became clear that Shula wasn't up to the task of running a diverse and dynamic offense, despite the addition of a player like CMC, Rivera finally made the call to move on.  So, to me, the timing of the move is the only thing that falls on Rivera, and that's only if you think the move came too late (I know some do, but some don't).  

 

 

[Mr. Scot]

11 minutes ago, Woodie said:

I think that's a gray area.  First of all, even if Cam didn't respect them the same way he does Norv (I think their relationship was fine, I just don't feel like Cam felt they could teach him much - but I don't think he was overtly disrespectful either), I doubt he went around talking to people about it, so it's the type of thing a HC may not pick up on. 

Sure, Rivera is the leader of the team, but he's not an offensive coach, and likely deferred to Shula for most offensive matters (just as most defensive oriented coaches defer to their OC, and vice versa).  Now, you could say that hiring/keeping Shula too long falls on Rivera.  And while that may be true, once that decision was made, as head coach, he needed to let his coaches coach the way they saw fit.   

If Rivera had an offensive background, then maybe he could have stepped in and helped nudge things along.  But as a defensive guy, he really didn't have the required experience to fully understand the nuances of how to best train a young QB.  He had to trust his coaching staff.  And to be fair, Cam is a unique QB, so there really wasn't a playbook on how to best develop a guy like him. 

However, while Rivera could have made the switch earlier, based on all the injuries to Cam the last few years along with having one of the most limited arsenals of weapons in the league, it's understandable that Rivera could believe Cam and the offense were ready to turn the corner with health and an influx of offensive talent.  But once it became clear that Shula wasn't up to the task of running a diverse and dynamic offense, despite the addition of a player like CMC, Rivera finally made the call to move on.  So, to me, the timing of the move is the only thing that falls on Rivera, and that's only if you think the move came too late (I know some do, but some don't).  

I get all that, but keep in mind we're not just talking about Shula. More than one person has stated the belief that Dorsey was much more buddy than coach.

Shula? Yeah, Rivera may not have known, but we do know he was told. Voth confirmed there was pressure to fire him but Rivera refused. That's a little tougher to defend.

As to Newton in general, Igo was actually of the opinion that the staff from Rivera on down has basically been afraid to say a negative word to him. You definitely can't coach effectively like that.

[TheSpecialJuan]

7 hours ago, electro's horse said:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/06/18/andrew-luck-colts-nfl-minicamp-mike-mccarthy-packers-norv-turner-panthers?utm_campaign=themmqb&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com

dumb 

[teeray]

MMQB is 10x better since Peter King left

[Mr. Scot]

16 minutes ago, teeray said:

MMQB is 10x better since Peter King left

I don't really have a problem with Peter King, but I'm a big fan of Albert Breer. He writes great stuff.

[Snake]

10 hours ago, pantherking15 said:

This offense has more talent than the 2015 offense. The 2015 offense benefited so much from short fields when the defense came up with turnovers. Also, I think the 2015 offense was inflated a decent bit by playing a relatively easy schedule without having to face elite pass rushes that could expose the lack of OT and WR talent.

Matt Kalil and Taylor Moton's performance at LT/LG will determine if this year's offense can be really special. Hopefully, with Norv as OC, a strong run game and quick passing can put them in a position to succeed.

That's if Rivera gives him a chance.