Do we need a CB?

[AU-panther]

The Daniel Jeremiah thread with the Greedy pick got me thinking about our CB situation. Some people seemed really opposed to the pick.  Its like they feel like if you a returning player you really don't have a huge need.

If you starter is below average are you really any better off at that position than one where you are losing a player to free agency or retirement?   You can always find below average.

My questions is, do we have 3 above average CBs?  Do we have 3 average CBs?  Not based off of what we think they might become or what they were three years ago, but based off of last year.

I know some people devalue slot corners but really the league is a nickel league now.  Good teams and good QBs will abuse your worst CB.

[LinvilleGorge]

Even if we see Bradberry/Jackson as the future on the outside, we still need a nickel. Captain sucks and Corn is even worse. Not sure if Cockrell will be able to he effective after his injuy or not.

[ncfan]

Our Nickelback was a Huge hole this year with Captain.

 

Bradberry has been Solid BUT really inconsistent and has had some real bad games as well.  And its his last year on Contract.

If the top DEs are off tthe board and the top CB in the draft is still there.  A guy who a top 5 level guy like Greedy, you take him.

 

The NFL going to more of a spread out passing league.  You need more than just 2 good CBs.  That Broncos D in 2015, Von Miller and the front 7 got a Ton of the credit.  But the CB trio of Harris, Roby, and Talib was just as big

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, Red Dead Redemption said:

We still need a nickle (Dennard or Verrett). 

But long term, do you really want to pay Bradberry 6.5M+?????? I say not a heck no but hell no.

$6.5M? LOL! If we could get Bradberry signed for $6.5M per year that would be the steal of the century. That would barely be a top 30 CB contract.

Bradberry is criminally underrated by this fanbase because he doesn't get INTs but if he did he'd probably he looking at being a top 5 paid CB on his next deal. Bradberry is a very solid cover corner who matches up really well with the best big WRs in the league, two of them just happen to also play in our division.

[Sgt Schultz]

I think we have more pressing needs, which I pointed out in the Greedy thread.  How those needs weigh against each other on draft day really depends on what we do in FA.  It's not a matter of whether we need another CB or not (we do), it is more of where it stands relevant to both lines and where we think we are with Cam's shoulder.

[Cpt slay a ho]

The way we play defense yeah we need 3 above average to great cbs, plus our division and how the nfl is becoming a straight line passing league, def an asset, it’s purely about logic, no need in taking the 4-6 rated de and passing on the #1 cb 

[AU-panther]

30 minutes ago, Red Dead Redemption said:

And yes, we NEED three above average corners. Where have you been? Have you even been keepin up with football anymore since 2008? 

Its a passing league. We have not 1, not 2 but 3 top tier WRs in our division. Thomas, Julio and Evans. 

Why did we lose the SB to the Denver? It just wasnt bc Von Miller was abusing Remmers. It’s bc Cam couldnt throw it to anyone bc Denver had three above average CORNERS!!!! Talib, Harris and Roby. 

Of course we need it, my point is some people think corner isn't a need because we have 3 returners.  My question is do we need it, it is do we have it? 

Do we have 3 above average CBs?  Do we have 3 average?  Compared to the entire league where do they rank?

Is Bradberry top 16 out of CB1s?  Is Jackson top 16 out of CB2s?  Is Captain in the top half of slots?

 

[thennek]

 I think we need a new D-Line more than a CB.  A great D-Line can hide a lot of  secondary deficiencies  and it has been several years since the Panthers have had a dominant front 4.  It is time for a major upgrade 

[New York Panther]

CB is something every team needs depth with. Look how our defense went to turmoil when donte would get Injured for even a quarter. 

We need to pile up just like we did at WR. Listen, I say we just focus on defensive line in free agency and second round of draft. It's too easy to be a bust D linemen in draft especially with our history (with 2 or 3 exceptions). Top corners have an easier transition and if Greedy is on the board I think we have to take him. He is a playmaker and brings that dirty LSU attitude we need alongside Action Jackson.

[PantherPhann89]

I do think that we need a slot CB. We haven't had one since Munnerlyn left and still don't. But I think that our DT position or NT is more important than the CB position. We need to be able to collapse the pocket to help our CB's out.

[AU-panther]

3 minutes ago, thennek said:

 I think we need a new D-Line more than a CB.  A great D-Line can hide a lot of  secondary deficiencies  and it has been several years since the Panthers have had a dominant front 4.  It is time for a major upgrade 

I agree we need an upgrade on the D-line but I think it works both ways.  A good secondary can give a D-line time to get a sack.

How long does it take to get a QB?

Fastest sack of the season 1.54 seconds.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/top-plays/fastest-sacks/2018/all

That is a bit of an outlier and not something you can count on.  4th fastest of the entire season was 2.04.  Still not really indicative of an average sack.  So lets look an individual week.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/top-plays/fastest-sacks/2018/17 

5th fastest of week 17: 2.9 secs

Being that is the 5th fastest I would think it is pretty safe to say that is still quicker than average, so lets go with 3 seconds anyway.

Can the 4 teams and QBs that are left in the playoffs get off a pass in 3 seconds?  

I would love to upgrade our D-line but with the way the league is going you need to be able to get up and guard receivers tight if you want to beat the good teams. I don't care about playing soft and waiting for mistakes from bad teams during the season.  The goal should be to build a team that can beat the other good teams.

 

 

 

 

 

[ncfan]

14 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

Of course we need it, my point is some people think corner isn't a need because we have 3 returners.  My question is do we need it, it is do we have it? 

Do we have 3 above average CBs?  Do we have 3 average?  Compared to the entire league where do they rank?

Is Bradberry top 16 out of CB1s?  Is Jackson top 16 out of CB2s?  Is Captain in the top half of slots?

 

It is still a need

Captain is possibly the leagues worst CB3

Bradberry, while isnt at the bottom of CB1s, O wouldnt put him in the top 10 either

Jackson is towards the top of CB2s and reminds me a little of Talib (just not as dirty)

It is not our Top need, but is A need.

So yes, if a Gary, Ferrell, Bosa is somehow there. You take them over a CB.  But you dont take a bottom of the 1st level DE over a top 5 level CB.

 

Even though your need for DE is greater

Would you draft a Shaq Lawson or Charles Harris over a Jalen Ramsey or Lattimore?

 

 

It goes back to the drafting Luke scenario 

You Have to draft a Need AND BPA.

If you have a CB who is #4-5 on a overall big board and a DE that 7-10 overall on a big board.  It isn't That big of a gap and you draft the DE.

 

If you have a CB #4-5 overall on a big board, and a DE thats 26th-30th overall on a BigBoard, you take the CB

 

 

If we Strictly drafted on Need alone like many on here seem to want.  We wouldve had Quenton Coples instead of Luke right now.

Our LBs then were pretty similar if not Better off than our CBs currently.  While our DEs were a sh!tshow similar to now.

Greg Hardy was just a 6th round rookie.

Charles Johnson was pretty much was what Addison is now. 

And Everette Brown was the other starter at DE.

And about the only other DE on Roster was Eric Norwood

Our LBs were Beason, TD, and James Anderson

 

Instead of drafting a DE when it was among the top 2-3 needs.  We drafted Luke, Who was a top 10 overall bigboard guy.  But LB was our 6th-7th biggest needs.

 

[ncfan]

Also if you dont get a Bosa, Ferrell, Gary

 

The next guys fall into the tier 2 level.

 

Just because the edge rushing group is stacked this year.  Doesnt mean they are ALL going to go in the first..

Theres only 32 picks in the first round.

 

When you sprinkle 2-3 QBs, 1RB, 2WRs, 2-4 OL, 2LB, 1-2 Safeties, 3-4 CBs, 3-4 interior DL, 1 TE.  Plus a few 3-4OLB guys like Burns at the very minimum

ALL your DEs that you have in your head that wont be around in round 2, get pushed down.

 

95% of mocks and people have Joe Jackson falling into the second.  Ablut 70% have Zach Allen falling into the 2nd.  

The list goes on.

Heck Kony Ealy was the 2nd best 4-3 DE by many when he came out.

 

How happy would you be right now if that was our 1st round pick this year?

 

 

[Sub Zero]

Bradberry is drastically underrated by this fan base..smh