four possibilities that could happen this sunday concerning kyle allen

[Cpt slay a ho]

6 hours ago, jfra78 said:

Baker Mayfield and Kyle Allen are different types of QBs.  Mayfield is a playmaker.  He will take chances to make plays.  Kyle Allen is a game manager.  He will play it safe, if it isn't there dump it off or throw it away.  Its easier for D coordinators to make the playmaker make mistakes with enough tape.  All you see with tape on Allen is him making the safe read or throwing it away. What I am most impressed with Kyle is that he is calm under pressure.  I also feel that this type of QB fits better in Norvs system. I love Cam and everything he has done for this franchise, but KA makes a lot of sense for the future of the franchise 

He makes sense if he’s the real deal, I haven’t seen enough from him to determined that, I do believe he will earn a shot but nick foles lit the league up his first year with a ridiculous td:int ratio, and fell back down to earth. I think it’s too early to say he’s calm under pressure, especially looking at the Houston game. 

I don’t think his showing is enough to replace a healthy Cam Newton yet, it’s a high risk high reward situation that I’m not fond of if there’re safer and better options to settle this 

[Mr. Scot]

11 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

Not trying to discount Kyle Allen at all. I've said time and time again he's a good starter in this league.

I just think it's rash to assume just because of that he's a better option than Cam Newton. Newton brings a whole lot more to the table than Allen, and it's okay to say the former MVP's the better option. I fail to see how that makes my opinion agenda driven and biased at all.

Actually you are, and you're doing a lot of things that tell me you're not accepting reality.

"When Cam Newton gets healthy" isn't a realistic statement.

"If Cam Newton gets healthy" is much more appropriate.

"Kyle Allen might or might not be named starter over Cam Newton", also perfectly rational.

"Zero chance Kyle Allen takes the starting job", out of touch.

It goes back to what I said before. You're comparing an idealized version of Cam Newton to a half hearted acknowledgement of Kyle Allen because those are the versions of these two players that exist in your head. The two guys who exist in reality aren't quite the same.

The decision, whatever it is, will be based on the real guys.

[thefuzz]

40 minutes ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

If you referring to the first overall pick(cam) I hope you are smart enough to understand the difference In circumstances 

I'm referring to almost every single QB that we have had here.

Clausen was handed the keys.  Jake was handed the keys.  Cam was handed the keys.

Just saying that you bringing up that his resume wasn't long enough to warrant handing over the keys, when at this point it's longer than most of the others we have trotted out there.

And no, I'm not hoping that we do that, just saying that what you said is exactly the opposite of what the Panthers have shown us they do.

[MasterAwesome]

20 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

@Mr. Scot I do hate bringing @ellis into this and I assume he could clarify this opinion more if he feels the need, but if you want me to bring his opinion in he's still of the same wavelength as me as far as whether this is Cam's team or not:

Perfectly reasonable take that this can be a game that shows Kyle Allen can be a starter in this league alongside the idea that Cam Newton still should be the starter.

No one is saying you're biased simply because of your conclusion that Cam is better than Kyle Allen...it's how you frame your "analysis".

Do you concede that I could hand-pick two clips of Kyle Allen stepping up in the pocket or progressing through his reads and hand-pick two clips of Cam Newton with poor pocket maneuvering and locking onto receivers and present the opposing conclusion that Kyle Allen is a better QB than Cam Newton?  That was the framework of your "objective analysis" in your other thread.

As a bonus, you included sensationalized edited clips highlighting a frustrated Greg Olsen throwing his hands up in dramatic fashion and take a gigantic leap to extrapolate the conclusion: "Hey look, even Greg Olsen wants Cam Newton over Kyle Allen!". What??  I know you're not a professional analyst, but that has to be the most amateurish display of analysis that I've seen in a long time.

[Cpt slay a ho]

2 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

I'm referring to almost every single QB that we have had here.

Clausen was handed the keys.  Jake was handed the keys.  Cam was handed the keys.

Just saying that you bringing up that his resume wasn't long enough to warrant handing over the keys, when at this point it's longer than most of the others we have trotted out there.

And no, I'm not hoping that we do that, just saying that what you said is exactly the opposite of what the Panthers have shown us they do.

How is this even on the same atmosphere of what I’m referring to, all 3 of those qbs didn’t have a franchise qb already on the roster. Of course it’s easier to hand the keys over when there’s no choice on who to give the keys to 

[thefuzz]

11 minutes ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

How is this even on the same atmosphere of what I’m referring to, all 3 of those qbs didn’t have a franchise qb already on the roster. Of course it’s easier to hand the keys over when there’s no choice on who to give the keys to 

Kyle just has too small of a sample size to legitimately be able hand the keys to the franchise over to him

 

That's what you said.  What I'm saying is that the Panthers have handed the keys over to other QB's that had even less starting experience than Kyle Allen.  Nothing more, nothing less.

It's not what I want to happen, but we have done it before, and I won't put anything past this front office and coaching staff.

[Cpt slay a ho]

16 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

Kyle just has too small of a sample size to legitimately be able hand the keys to the franchise over to him

 

That's what you said.  What I'm saying is that the Panthers have handed the keys over to other QB's that had even less starting experience than Kyle Allen.  Nothing more, nothing less.

It's not what I want to happen, but we have done it before, and I won't put anything past this front office and coaching staff.

The situations are clearly different than what you are referring to, to take the keys from cam and hand over to Kyle after 5 games is not enough of a resume. 
 

saying we’ve done it in the past is irrelevant to this particular situation 

[thefuzz]

8 minutes ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

The situations are clearly different than what you are referring to, to take the keys from cam and hand over to Kyle after 5 games is not enough of a resume. 
 

saying we’ve done it in the past is irrelevant to this particular situation 

Every single situation in every NFL clubhouse if different after every game.

What I'm saying is that what you wrote is clearly not the case.  We see teams hand over the keys to the franchise all the time with less starts than Kyle Allen has for us.

I'm not saying that we should, or will, but to say it's not enough of a resume is just not accurate in todays NFL.

[Cpt slay a ho]

7 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

Every single situation in every NFL clubhouse if different after every game.

What I'm saying is that what you wrote is clearly not the case.  We see teams hand over the keys to the franchise all the time with less starts than Kyle Allen has for us.

I'm not saying that we should, or will, but to say it's not enough of a resume is just not accurate in todays NFL.

You are failing to realize when those teams do that they either spend a lot of money or a high first pick on said qb, so of course they would hand the keys over to them they have a better resume than Allen does most of the time. 

this is a different situation completely, you already have a franchise qb on the roster when healthy, Allen was brought in or kept for a backup role, he was never thought of as the predecessor to cam to my knowledge before his play this year(by the media at least). If he exceeds the early label I’m all for it but you can’t realistically say that after 5 total games. It’s is very, very rare you see that happen while a team has a franchise qb in place, even more rare the success rate 

[raz]

no one who posted those vids saying cam played unbelievably in our first 2 games is in any way objective.   this has been a fit the narrative from the beginning.     your opinion may be correct saca.   maybe cam can play from the pocket at over 60% completion rate.  maybe he can survive running and not re-injure his throwing shoulder.  the first one i think is possible.  the 2nd one, no way that lasts.   i sure hope that isn't the plan.  his td/int ratio is pretty bad.   but maybe he can do it.   and maybe not playing the way he loves to play will still be fun for him.    and maybe his shoulder will hold up. lots and lots of maybe's.   more will be revealed.   we've got a huge game this week.  also, your confidence level in your opinion will in no way affect the outcome.

[TheSpecialJuan]

15 hours ago, Saca312 said:

the bye week is now gone and football week is upon us. this week, the panthers will have their biggest test yet going against the only undefeated NFC team in the 49ers. 

additionally, kyle allen has already been deemed the starter, indicating the coaching staff is indeed using their one brain cell to ensure cam newton comes back 100% healthy and not rush him back.

so, with that being said, im sure a lot of u are wondering what this game entails as far as who is our starting quarterback going forward, so i present to you four scenarios:

1.) kyle allen plays like poo and loses

-what this means going forward: kyle allen remains the starter until cam newton is healthy.

2.) kyle allen plays well enough but panthers still lose

-what this means going forward: kyle allen remains the starter until cam newton is healthy.

3.) kyle allen plays well enough and the panthers win

-what this means going forward: kyle allen remains the starter until cam newton is healthy.

4.) kyle allen unlocks his inner peyton manning and has the game of his career, actively creating plays and clear primary factor for winning

-what this means going forward: kyle allen remains the starter until cam newton is healthy.

___________
So, what am I trying to get at? 

Simply put, it's one game against a very good team. As far as declaratives on this being Kyle Allen's clincher if he plays out of his mind, I really would be wary until he starts actively winning more.

In my opinion, Kyle Allen has produced two underwhelming games and two decent games thus far this season. He has not has a standout game yet where he's shown to be a similar or bigger playmaker than what a healthy cam newton provides, nor has he played like complete total poo.

And this is coming from the fact I think Kyle Allen is a decent starter in this league. (more on that in this post.)

So, what I'm saying is, for this season, a healthy Cam Newton is a far better player in terms of impact than Kyle Allen. Even if scenario four happens, I need to see a bigger sample size of those kind of games where he's an active reason for winning through playmaking ability.

Even if the worst case scenarios happen, he'll still be the starter, since it's still a small sample size.

In other words, nothing much has or will change.

 

Unless Kyle plays like Sam Darnold last night he keeps the job next week as well. 

[SmokinwithWilly]

My biggest concern is when/if Cam is named starter again, will we see the slow pace to the line, lack of time to make adjustments, time management crap come right back. Cam is more gifted than KA, no doubt about it. But it's not just about him. 

The o-line playing better could be in part due to having 15 to 20 seconds to read the defense, Allen having time to pull a TE in to block, and the defense not having the snap count every down because the play clock is always at 1.

I think Cam has to fix that issue before he can start again or he may throw a wrench into the offensive machine. KA having to play in his place has revealed a lot of things that others have been blamed for, and I'm guilty of doing it. I just hope 9 years into his career, hes willing to do it.

And as a bonus, option 6. 

KA gets knocked out of the game on the 1st drive, Grier comes in and drops 400 yards and 6 TDs and we start the QB controversy all over again.

[Saca312]

2 hours ago, MasterAwesome said:

Do you concede that I could hand-pick two clips of Kyle Allen stepping up in the pocket or progressing through his reads

I mean do you concede it's unfeasible to post every play?

I even posted a point of reference where Kyle Allen showed ability to step into the pocket. I just said it's frequency was low in comparison to Cam.

Do I have to put out timestamps and chart every instance of stepping up into the pocket for a two game sample from Cam and Allen for you to trust in the idea Allen does it less than Cam? Practicality doesn't afford that luxury.

Again, there is only so much time and so much text that can go into a post. Film Analysis is around the constraint no one's going to post every single play in existence and I already showed both where Allen showed improvement as well. Observations are from the totality of what I watched, and I like how you conveniently ignore the positive analysis I've brought up concerning Allen's game.

So once again, I've learned very clearly this forum's a huge waste of time for anyone who wants to attempt to post quality content and I'll have the same people whining about something I post all over again. Y'all go ahead and do your own posts and analysis and whatever. Thanks for the reminder on why I don't post here anymore.

[Saca312]

3 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

It goes back to what I said before. You're comparing an idealized version of Cam Newton to a half hearted acknowledgement of Kyle Allen because those are the versions of these two players that exist in your head. The two guys who exist in reality aren't quite the same.

You seem to have a predetermined set picture of reality yourself.

It's whatever. This argument has not been worth the time or effort anyways. 

Used to have respect for you as a poster on here, but if you're going to die on this hill that I'm downgrading Kyle for the notion that he's not better than Cam Newton, then there are bigger issues that need to be addressed, as that has never been the case.

If I said Kyle was better than Newton, would that have made my analysis objective? Because frankly that's a terrible take given what I've seen, but I mean apparently it's a wild and outlandish one on here and I'm coming in with an agenda for saying such.

At least I know now I shouldn't waste my time on this board again.