Defending Rivera

[jfra78]

I think after today's loss Ron is all but gone.  In a way it will be nice for a change.  I just wish we could have gotten a SB with Cam

[pantherj]

This season determines Ron's fate imo. If we make the playoffs, then he'll be offered a new contract. If not then he's gone. I think the odds are rather high that we're not making the playoffs, and even if we did we would be destroyed by a top tier team. Qb and O-line injuries are tough to overcome, but I just don't see the Panthers winning the SB with the direction we're headed. Cam and KK eating up the cap and not playing really hurts our chances, but even with them out there we just don't have it. Our center is terrible, Jackson should be in the slot and can't cover deep, we big and slow on the d-line yet we get overpower in the run, and many more problems. We just don't have right formula. We don't even have a proper #1 WR and it's killing our offense. I'm ready for an offensive HC.

[Squirrel]

Watching the game today was frustrating.  But I see personnel change coming this week on the defensive side. Wont save Rivera he is done here at the end of the season. 

 

Tepper has been patient and this offseason he will implement what he wants to see on the football side.  Dont  think he will meddle alot afterwards. But currently no one on the football side is his guys.  He will want people he trust and picked. 

[ok2h8pep]

I have a hot take ...

Rivera is an players coach who was better with Gettleman setting the culture.  Not speaking to G-man vs. Hurney as far as GM duties go, but I happen to believe that players were more focused on doing their f-ing job when G-man was here versus all of Hurneys' 'we're a family' happy horseshit.

Seems the one thing that Hurney has consistently delivered is a soft player culture.

I agree with previous posters here that we had a window to get it done and that window closed in 2016.  It doesn't even matter if Rivera is a great coach - his time here is done.  Sometimes both parties need to move on.

[kungfoodude]

7 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Valid.

I suppose you could ask the question whether you'd rather have an owner who gets too angry or one who doesn't get angry enough.

The latter.

[tiger7_88]

13 hours ago, ARSEN said:

So the big problem I see... Our DEs are 250lbs and strictly rushers.  They should be 3-4 LBs but we do not have enough DTs for 3-4 so we are playing 4-3 with undersized DEs so we get pushed around big time upfront.  Once we lost KK, we were f’ed.

When we drafted Burns, I said that he was a great talent, fantastic pass-rusher, and a great pick *IF* he played mostly as OLB in a 3-4.  I also said that he (and the other undersized DEs) would get pushed around the field if playing 4-3 DE with their hand in the dirt and that it would have been better to pick a 1st round OT.

QED.

[therealmjl]

It’s time to move on

[tiger7_88]

13 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

It was reported that team owner David Tepper was "livid" after the San Francisco game. This game wasn't the kind of humiliating blowout that game was, but the defense in this game was pretty terrible as well.

Who chose to retain Ron Rivera as Head Coach of the Carolina Panthers?

Oh yeah... David Tepper.  Which makes him responsible... for ALL of the crap Rivera continues to roll out on the field, week after week (which he has a track record of doing for YEARS).

Oh, so NOW big rich man is mad?  Maybe he ought to turn that vision inward at this point and do a fresh self-evaluation.

[beastson]

To be fair to Ron, Cam hasn't been healthy... we were 6-2 last year before the dirty Pittsburgh player purposefully aimed for Cam shoulder, but its little things to me that will keep us from being a championship team... starting with the defense and he's a defensive HC. The zone we constantly play infuriates me. You must mix man in with zone especially in the playoffs. This team still has bad gap control. Zone blocking schemes carve us up like turkeys. Certain decisions like going for 2... why? We might have started winning after the bye, but they struggle after it. The coordinators he hire kills me... I'm not a fan

[Mr. Scot]

34 minutes ago, tiger7_88 said:

Who chose to retain Ron Rivera as Head Coach of the Carolina Panthers?

Oh yeah... David Tepper.  Which makes him responsible... for ALL of the crap Rivera continues to roll out on the field, week after week (which he has a track record of doing for YEARS).

Oh, so NOW big rich man is mad?  Maybe he ought to turn that vision inward at this point and do a fresh self-evaluation.

I wouldn't argue that, but if he's genuinely unhappy about the state of the team, I'd consider that a good thing.

[NAS]

17 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

It was reported that team owner David Tepper was "livid" after the San Francisco game. This game wasn't the kind of humiliating blowout that game was, but the defense in this game was pretty terrible as well.

It's possible Rivera might have been able to survive one performance like that, but two horrible defensive showings within a few weeks of each other? I've got a feeling that proverbial seat is getting mighty warm.

Still, I know there are people who are fans. I've said elsewhere that I'm a fan of Rivera the person. Rivera the coach? Not so much.

But if you feel differently, I'll give you the chance to speak your mind here.

Defend keeping Rivera, if you can.

This was a one score loss, not a blowout. Defense sucked against the run but they did limit Rodgers. I am the biggest Rivera critic but this one isn’t on him. Sometimes it’s just lack of personnel. I think our DTs are getting handled physically 

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, NAS said:

This was a one score loss, not a blowout. Defense sucked against the run but they did limit Rodgers. I am the biggest Rivera critic but this one isn’t on him. Sometimes it’s just lack of personnel. I think our DTs are getting handled physically 

It was a one score loss, but it was also a horrible defensive performance.

Counting the Steelers and the 49ers, that's three of those in a two year period (some would probably argue there are more, but those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head).

What makes that worse is that Rivera is supposed to be a defensive guru.

[Camp Fodder]

19 hours ago, Peon Awesome said:

I won't say whether or not we should keep or fire Rivera because I honestly think it's too early to say. But as far as defending him, I think that's a worthy exercise. Rivera has shown this year he's willing to adapt. People complain that he ignores his rookies in favor of underperforming vets but this year he chose to stick with a 6th round rookie at LT over Daryl Williams. His decision to go for 2 tonight was a smart decision driven by clear analytics (despite people having trouble getting that) and again demonstrates his willingness to change with the times. He's shown a greater williness to be aggressive in other ways too, like the fake punt in our own territory last week. And if you think only Blackburn deserves credit for that, don't pretend a decision that big doesn't need the blessing of the head coach.

He created a defensive scheme that turned us from one of the worst pass rushing teams in the league to one of the best (while unfortunately sacrificing our ability to stop the run but that's for another thread). He has ultimately led this team to a 5-2 record after losing our starting qb, with the only 2 losses coming on the road to the current top 2 seeds in the NFC who have a combined 16-2 record. He's weathered other important injuries including on the offensive line, both starting corners at one time or another and our former all-pro defensive tackle now on IR. 

If Rivera was a terrible coach, we wouldn't have been playing for anything short of draft position since probably week 4. He has his flaws but you can say that about pretty much any coach short of Belichick. If the team plays hard for Rivera and we finish the season with a winning record despite what is a pretty tough stretch, I'd let him play out another year. If we collapse the rest of the way and have another losing season, the writing is on the wall. I just hope in that case we find someone worth a damn because this year's first year coaches aren't exactly inspiring a ton of confidence. 

Green Bay’s coach is 8-2

 

[Peon Awesome]

1 hour ago, Camp Fodder said:

Green Bay’s coach is 8-2

 

Yeah he's the one exception and even then, I have a hard time thinking he deserves a lot of the credit. He was hired as an offensive guru, and yet despite having Aaron Rodgers, Davante Adams and Aaron Jones (one of the most talented qb-wr-rb trios in the league), their offense has been incredibly average at best. Just look at our game against them. Despite being gifted multiple terrible calls by the officials, winning the turnover margin by 2 and being able to steamroll us on nearly every rush, we came inches from setting up a tying 2 point conversion try. I think a more competent coach would have blown us out of the water.