kinda interesting how the patriots are using cam

[electro's horse]

i don't have any fancy gifs or anything. it's just what I've noticed since I've watched all three games.

the 2015 panthers offense was based around a very complex running game that set up just poo loads of deep bombs. Panthers would hit defenses with the running game from every direction, pull the linebackers down, then run play action and find someone deep. The Panthers receivers weren't great, but the constant motion and threat of cam running allowed the WRs time to run double moves, and if you buy enough time SOMEONE is going to get open. Cam was always more accurate deep than he was short and intermediate, so it worked. You also don't need great receivers to do this. 

Then teams figured out the panthers offensive line was garbage and refs weren't going to call kill shots on cam and we all know what happened next. 

The patriots are doing something very similar. They're using a complex running game to throw defenses off. Carolina used a lot of motion in 2015 and ran essentially a triple option. This is easy because it doesn't actually require a lot of complex blocking; it's just having a bunch of fast dudes running behind the line of scrimmage before the snap.

There's a little of that in new england, but they're running blocking schemes that are amazing. They can do this because they're the best coached team in the league, they have better offensive lineman than the panthers ever did, and Dante Scarnecchia is a warlock. Instead of using a ton of presnap motion (they're using some) they're just using cam running as a threat to keep an extra defender in. 

also they hold on every play but that's neither here nor there. 

What they're doing with the passing game is VERY interesting. In the late nineties/early 2000s, the term "Tedford QB" became kind of a pejorative. His QBs would put up huge college numbers and bust spectacularly. They were players like Kyle Boller, Trent Dilfer, Akili Smith, David Carr etc. Rodgers was technically one but he transferred away. 

The way Tedford worked was he divided the field into vertical thirds. Prensap, the QB knows which third he's throwing to. They 2 - 3 routes into that area, generally at different levels. This allows the QB to only focus on a third of the field and generally overwhelm the defense. Defense has to cover all three; QB is just looking at one. This didn't translate into the NFL at all through the 2000s and 2010s. It's starting to since this is the foundation of the Air Raid offense, and lots of concepts are moving their way into the NFL. 

Cam still doesn't consistently have his deep ball and I doubt he ever will again. The patriots have taken those deep crossing routes from the 2015 season and replaced them with a Tedford style system. Watch Cam when they play action; he's looking right to one third of the field. He'll have two choices, one that's always an easy check down. 

What generally stops this kind of offense in the NFL is defenses are too athletic and too good and eventually teams will figure out what you're doing and scheme to stop it. But the Patriots are using this run game and Cam's threat of running to take away a defender in the secondary. That's allowing them to overwhelm defenses with easy throws to specific thirds of the field. I don't know if they can hold this up. Team will remember how to play cam again (kill him) but I'm sure the Patriots would be smart enough to counter that. Mike Shula's response to defenders murdering cam was to think, "what if we had.....fewer...blockers?" And of course all that depends on cam's health which I wouldn't trust at all. 

Just an interesting what if with cam. Imagine if he'd had competent coaching in carolina. Or imagine what BB could do with a young cam. 

so in closing...

1. patriots are using a complex running game throw the defense off (and holding) 

2. they're cutting up the field and giving cam easy throws off play action 

3. they're hiding cam's lack of deep ball doing this

and remember as always fug mike shula forever

[Mr. Scot]

Scarnecchia retired this year, actually.

They've replaced him with two guys named Carmen Bricillo and Cole Popovich. As far as I know, neither of them is listed as an assistant so I guess they're just co-coaches.

Only team I know of that has two guys in that role, but then the Patriots have always invested in offensive line like I wish we would.

As far as the offense, McDaniels is an absolute mad scientist.

[electro's horse]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Scarnecchia retired this year, actually.

As far as the offense, McDaniels is an absolute mad scientist.

On another board I post on the pats fans have stated he's still "a consultant" so whatever that means. 

And I don't think it's McDaniels. He's failed everywhere he's gone, while the Patriots just keep trucking along. The offense is probably BB too. 

[TheCasillas]

Cam has already carried the ball 35 times. He is on pace to destroy his most rushing attempts he had here by almost 50 carries. Considering we were constantly ridiculed for running him to death, I think the Pats can be for the same thing. It's just what Cam is. A rushing QB.  The difference here is that Patriots only have a 1yr tie to the guy for vet min. They do not care. haha.

[OneBadCat]

He's also on the Patriots now so the refs will be looking out for him now instead of actively cheating him. 

[onmyown]

Yea I don’t think they’re using cam’s running solely to draw a defender. He’s running A LOT and in the red zone.

I do agree allowing cam less complicated plays will get the best out of him and is smart.

But I don’t see any of this holding up without a consistent deep ball threat. Plus you’re still driving the qb in the ground despite a better oline. Playoff caliber defenses will shut this down. But who knows, he has the benefit of the GOAT HC, no doubt he has something up his sleeve. 

Which brings me to my last point, I don’t see Cam being offered a long term contract there. Maybe another 2 year deal or something but he isn’t the future there just as Teddy is not here. The patriots know this and are squeezing all they can out of cam and his legs for as long as they can.

[Mr. Scot]

How Newton would do in Joe Brady's offense is one of those questions I'd love to have answered but know I never will.

It's more naturally tuned to quick release game managers like Bridgewater, but Norv Turner got some mileage out of Newton throwing quick and short (granted, out of necessity).

Still, the general take on Newton is that he works best when an offense is built around his skill set, and that's what the Patriots are doing.

[saX man]

They're running him a lot but the scheme isn't making him a battering ram minus goal line situations.  It's actually quite interesting. 

The playbook seems to help him when he has his off days which as great as he was, we know he would have.  Good coaching for him, interested to see how it unfolds. 

[Tbe]

23 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

Cam has already carried the ball 35 times. He is on pace to destroy his most rushing attempts he had here by almost 50 carries. Considering we were constantly ridiculed for running him to death, I think the Pats can be for the same thing. It's just what Cam is. A rushing QB.  The difference here is that Patriots only have a 1yr tie to the guy for vet min. They do not care. haha.

Yeah, they are going to run him into the ground then discard him. I hope he gets a ring for it. 

[joemac]

53 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

On another board I post on the pats fans have stated he's still "a consultant" so whatever that means. 

And I don't think it's McDaniels. He's failed everywhere he's gone, while the Patriots just keep trucking along. The offense is probably BB too. 

McDaniels has failed everywhere hes gone?  Except for the 15 or so years as a Super Bowl winning offensive mastermind for the Patriots?  He wasnt great in Denver but I dont know how much of that is all on him.  He seems to have revitalized Cam's career thus far, if nothing else. 

[joemac]

34 minutes ago, onmyown said:

Yea I don’t think they’re using cam’s running solely to draw a defender. He’s running A LOT and in the red zone.

I do agree allowing cam less complicated plays will get the best out of him and is smart.

But I don’t see any of this holding up without a consistent deep ball threat. Plus you’re still driving the qb in the ground despite a better oline. Playoff caliber defenses will shut this down. But who knows, he has the benefit of the GOAT HC, no doubt he has something up his sleeve. 

Which brings me to my last point, I don’t see Cam being offered a long term contract there. Maybe another 2 year deal or something but he isn’t the future there just as Teddy is not here. The patriots know this and are squeezing all they can out of cam and his legs for as long as they can.

I predict the Pats offer Cam something like a 3 year 90 million dollar deal this offseason.  Or Franchise him and see how he does in year 2 before throwing a long term deal at him.  If they continue their great success for the rest of the season they would be fools to let Cam walk.

[electro's horse]

1 minute ago, joemac said:

McDaniels has failed everywhere hes gone?  Except for the 15 or so years as a Super Bowl winning offensive mastermind for the Patriots?  He wasnt great in Denver but I dont know how much of that is all on him.  He seems to have revitalized Cam's career thus far, if nothing else. 

He was so bad in St Louis you don't even remember he was there. 

 

26 minutes ago, saX man said:

They're running him a lot but the scheme isn't making him a battering ram minus goal line situations.  It's actually quite interesting. 

 

Yeah the running plays are actually plays. 

Not just like "hey cam uh do your thing."

[NAS]

Cam still has an arm to throw deep, he showed it in the Seatlle game

[rico6]

17 minutes ago, NAS said:

Cam still has an arm to throw deep, he showed it in the Seatlle game

NE ain’t fielding any deep threats, either. If Edelman and Byrd (bless his heart) are your team’s vertical options then just.. lol