Another Year, another stretch where Sean Payton is undefeated without Brees

[Car123]

7 hours ago, SizzleBuzz said:

I am the source.

I know how the Appaloosa model works and how guys like Tepper operate and I can guarantee you he (Tepper) would never vest Hurney with power/authority of that nature.  (Tepper too knows Hurn ain't the best decision maker, but Tepp values the info Hurn is able to source)

If you want to get into the weeds about how I know so read pages 7 & 8 of this thread:  https://www.carolinahuddle.com/boards/topic/166270-hurney-scks-got-it-how-do-we-fix-it/?&page=7#comments

Won't take long.

If afterwards you have questions fire away, happy to help.

Stopped reading after the first sentence.

[stbugs]

20 hours ago, WarHeel said:

Proves that you can win and not have to sell your extremities to go out and get a franchise QB. Just my opinion.

I don’t agree with this. Do you think we can have the same great drafts. Look at how much building they did on D in the past 4-5 drafts. Do you think we can duplicate that? It’s still easIer to win and build a good team if you hit on a QB and it’s one pick. You don’t stop drafting if you pick a QB round 1, you can still work on other positions. Not exactly selling your extremities.

NO’s D is playing ridiculous right now and are the #1 D at least yardage wise. Hill got the benefit of the D turning it on. Remember how bad their D looked early. If they had played like this all year, they likely would be 12-0. They are giving up 9 points a game in the last 5. Even we’d be 5-0 if we did that.

Not saying they haven’t won without Brees (they did lose when Teddy came in for a hurt Brees and played 90% of the game), but this year’s streak is 100% D driven.

Also, Hill is 3-0 against the 4-8 Falcons and the QB less Broncos. I really hope he plays against KC.

[ForJimmy]

I get winning is hard to do consistently (see Washington beating the Steelers), but Hill has beat the Falcons twice and a Denver team with a practice squad WR playing QB. If he beats the Chiefs in a couple weeks then I will be impressed.

[BrianS]

Winning during the season is one thing.  Going to the playoffs / SB and winning those games is a completely different proposition.  Average QB's can put up good records in the regular season if they have a great supporting cast and/or a stellar defense.  It takes an "all time" defense / supporting cast to carry an average QB to a SB win. 

Make no mistake about it, that's exactly what it is.  Average QB's who win SB's are carried.  It's far more common for a good / great QB to carry his team to a SB.

[WarHeel]

34 minutes ago, stbugs said:

I don’t agree with this. Do you think we can have the same great drafts. Look at how much building they did on D in the past 4-5 drafts. Do you think we can duplicate that? It’s still easIer to win and build a good team if you hit on a QB and it’s one pick. You don’t stop drafting if you pick a QB round 1, you can still work on other positions. Not exactly selling your extremities.

NO’s D is playing ridiculous right now and are the #1 D at least yardage wise. Hill got the benefit of the D turning it on. Remember how bad their D looked early. If they had played like this all year, they likely would be 12-0. They are giving up 9 points a game in the last 5. Even we’d be 5-0 if we did that.

Not saying they haven’t won without Brees (they did lose when Teddy came in for a hurt Brees and played 90% of the game), but this year’s streak is 100% D driven.

Also, Hill is 3-0 against the 4-8 Falcons and the QB less Broncos. I really hope he plays against KC.

You’re only proving my point. Building through the draft is how you create success for consecutive years. Giving away draft capital to get a “franchise” QB is something many on here advocate for and it puts us in the same position we’ve been in the last quarter of a century. Mediocre.

[stbugs]

2 hours ago, WarHeel said:

You’re only proving my point. Building through the draft is how you create success for consecutive years. Giving away draft capital to get a “franchise” QB is something many on here advocate for and it puts us in the same position we’ve been in the last quarter of a century. Mediocre.

What draft capital are you talking about? There may be a tiny minority that want to trade up for Lawrence. I’d love to have him and he’d be amazing with Moore, Anderson and Samuel but we can’t afford the move up and it’s probably not even on the block.

We are only talking about taking a QB in the first round. That’s 1 pick. NO had Brees so they could focus on getting him weapons (Thomas/Kamala), getting him OL (McCoy, Ruiz and Ramzcyk) and building their D. They never skimped on any area but having the franchise QB certainly helped them focus on improving week spots while still making the playoffs every year. Their D stepping up helps but they’ve been competing for the SB for years now, not just this year.

The main difference is that the Saints have killed it on day 2 and they already had their franchise QB. We did neither in 2018/2019 and grabbed Teddy.

Anyone can say you are successful when you build through the draft. That’s a Duh moment because if you draft well then your team will be better. There’s no science there. If NO makes bad picks their D isn’t good. Brees or not, good drafting is a good thing. I don’t think I proved your point which I believe is not to go for a franchise QB in the first because we need a better QB and we need more talent on D, not mutually exclusive. I want a great QB because he’ll improve us way more than upgrading Ian Thomas or Tre Boston or Kerr. I also would like to continue to draft well around said QB just like NO did.

One other note, Teddy and Taysom have played 9 games (Teddy threw 30 times against the Rams) in reserve. 2 of those 9 were against better than .500 teams and they were 1-1. Taysom’s opponents this year during a 9 ppg D streak are 12-24. Teddy won 4 of his 5 by 7 or less points. The 3 games after Teddy with Brees back were wins of 22, 27 and 32. Let’s not act like either of these two is better than Brees and that it means we don’t need a QB.

[PootieNunu]

13 hours ago, SizzleBuzz said:

Hurney gathered information for and participated in the draft process --- he had final say on absolutely nothing.

People also like to blame Hurney for the Grier pick, that was all Scott and Norv.

I will even go as far to say Hurney did not have much say when MoRon was here either, Hurney is a yes man. Nothing more.

[stbugs]

13 hours ago, Davidson Deac II said:

Yeah, a team lead by Kendall Hinton at qb scored the same amount of points as team lead by Tom Brady at qb.  

But I generally agree with you.  I give the Saints credit, they have won.  But they struggled against us, the Bears, and the second game against the Falcons.  The Saints have another easy one Sunday, but after that it gets a lot tougher.  They face KC and a surging Minnesota team.    

It’ll be interesting if Brees isn’t playing against KC.

[stbugs]

6 minutes ago, PootieNunu said:

People also like to blame Hurney for the Grier pick, that was all Scott and Norv.

I will even go as far to say Hurney did not have much say when MoRon was here either, Hurney is a yes man. Nothing more.

You are probably right, I don’t think Marty is much of a GM of his own merit. The one thing that was easy to spot was that the 2020 draft was completely different than the 2018/2019 drafts and even the 2017 draft. Whether it was Marty getting pushed over by Ron or Marty by himself. Rhule and co absolutely influenced this draft.

[WarHeel]

34 minutes ago, stbugs said:

What draft capital are you talking about? There may be a tiny minority that want to trade up for Lawrence. I’d love to have him and he’d be amazing with Moore, Anderson and Samuel but we can’t afford the move up and it’s probably not even on the block.

We are only talking about taking a QB in the first round. That’s 1 pick. NO had Brees so they could focus on getting him weapons (Thomas/Kamala), getting him OL (McCoy, Ruiz and Ramzcyk) and building their D. They never skimped on any area but having the franchise QB certainly helped them focus on improving week spots while still making the playoffs every year. Their D stepping up helps but they’ve been competing for the SB for years now, not just this year.

The main difference is that the Saints have killed it on day 2 and they already had their franchise QB. We did neither in 2018/2019 and grabbed Teddy.

Anyone can say you are successful when you build through the draft. That’s a Duh moment because if you draft well then your team will be better. There’s no science there. If NO makes bad picks their D isn’t good. Brees or not, good drafting is a good thing. I don’t think I proved your point which I believe is not to go for a franchise QB in the first because we need a better QB and we need more talent on D, not mutually exclusive. I want a great QB because he’ll improve us way more than upgrading Ian Thomas or Tre Boston or Kerr. I also would like to continue to draft well around said QB just like NO did.

One other note, Teddy and Taysom have played 9 games (Teddy threw 30 times against the Rams) in reserve. 2 of those 9 were against better than .500 teams and they were 1-1. Taysom’s opponents this year during a 9 ppg D streak are 12-24. Teddy won 4 of his 5 by 7 or less points. The 3 games after Teddy with Brees back were wins of 22, 27 and 32. Let’s not act like either of these two is better than Brees and that it means we don’t need a QB.

Some would argue we wouldn’t be in position to grab a franchise guy at the position we would be drafting requiring us to give up several picks. That’s my point.

[stbugs]

11 minutes ago, WarHeel said:

Some would argue we wouldn’t be in position to grab a franchise guy at the position we would be drafting requiring us to give up several picks. That’s my point.

It’s possible. I’m not in love with anyone we can get to move way up. I mean if we beat the Broncos and all the 4/5 win teams lose, we drop to 14th. It would be really bad for us to beat the Broncos. All 4 5-7 teams have a worse SOS (good for draft slot) we happen to have the lowest SOS for 4 win teams so winning is terrible for draft position. We really do need to lose out and if we did I think we might be in position to have a choice between Wilson and Lance.

I’m with you on draft capital. We didn’t do what Jacksonville and Miami did and pick up extra picks. We threw away loads of cap and lost 2 comp picks. We don’t have anything to deal with at this point that wouldn’t hurt our rebuild. That’s why finishing 4-12 is big.

[Mr. Scot]

Didn't expect this conversation to include quotes from Bum Phillips.

(yeah, I'm that old too)

Man, he was a character 

[pantherclaw]

On 12/8/2020 at 10:14 AM, Sean Payton's Vicodin said:

As of today Sean is 8-0 without Brees the last two years. Almost like he has a very QB friendly system with an excellent roster or something. Did Hurney get bamboozled YET AGAIN?

It's what happened after they finally got a good defense. 

[pantherclaw]

22 hours ago, SizzleBuzz said:

Hurney gathered information for and participated in the draft process --- he had final say on absolutely nothing.

Dream land.