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Is QB the right pick?

rmoneyg35

By rmoneyg35,
in Carolina Panthers

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Sgt Schultz Grand Master

Sgt Schultz

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5 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I don't know. Depending on our grades it would be worth a conversation. But who knows? Maybe our draft grades don't end up showing the huge gap between Lawrence and the rest of the field that the hype would lead you to believe.

Looking at the draft choice value charts, it would take a lot to move from #4 to #1.  Trading the entire 2021 draft would not do it.  Including Hurney would not do it (and would probably make it worse).  Just a guess, but it would probably take the 2021 and 2022 firsts plus a conditional pick next year to even that out.

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TheProcess Rising Star

TheProcess

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23 minutes ago, Sgt Schultz said:

Looking at the draft choice value charts, it would take a lot to move from #4 to #1.  Trading the entire 2021 draft would not do it.  Including Hurney would not do it (and would probably make it worse).  Just a guess, but it would probably take the 2021 and 2022 firsts plus a conditional pick next year to even that out.

I know things have changed, but in 2004 here was the trade.

Giants traded pick #4, their 3rd round pick, a 1st and 5th the next year to the Chargers for pick #1 

This was the Eli Manning and Philip Rivers trade.

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TheProcess Rising Star

TheProcess

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42 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I don't know. Depending on our grades it would be worth a conversation. But who knows? Maybe our draft grades don't end up showing the huge gap between Lawrence and the rest of the field that the hype would lead you to believe.

I think a lot hinges on whether the Jets like Wilson or Lance as an option. Obviously if they could get a QB they liked at #4 it softens our blow a little bit. 

How ironic would it be?  In 2004 a top ranked heralded QB forced his way to NY in a trade involving the 1st and 4th overall picks in a QB swap, the 4th pick Rivers played in the Carolinas at NC State. Fast forward to 2020/2021, a top ranked QB who played in the Carolinas at Clemson forces his way out of NY in a trade involving the 1st and 4th overall picks in a QB swap. Year 2004 to year 2020, yep 16 years for Jersey #16 Trevor Lawrence. Year 2004 to year 2021 (draft), yep 17 years reminding us of jersey #17 Rivers. 

Lol, okay that was a bit of a reach there with the jersey numbers, but a trade like this has happened before.

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

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23 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I don't know who those guys were who came back or their reasoning. But one thing is that there's a big gap between pay at the top of the 1st and later on in the 1st. I'd honestly argue you're better off going in the 2nd than the late 1st. Without that 1st round 5th year option your one year closer to that second contract and that's where the big money is. I mean, I definitely wish we had that 5th year option on Chinn.

They just wanted to play another year of college football.   I mean, you can't get a year of your youth back if you skip past it.   There is something to that.    You got a lifetime to chase dollars.   Only one opportunity to be young and enjoy certain things. 

They defensive linemen went 4, 13, and 17.   And the DL class was much weaker if they would have left early. 

Etienne came back this year.  would have been the 1st or 2nd RB off the board IMO.   Going back wasn't going to up his draft status either.   He will likely be the 1st or 2nd RB off the board.  He already has multiple nattys too.  

So given all that, I just think there are odds he stays.   Clemson is just weird.  It's fun.  And there is a tone being set of enjoying college and not costing you. 

 

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LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

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14 minutes ago, TheProcess said:

I know things have changed, but in 2004 here was the trade.

Giants traded pick #4, their 3rd round pick, a 1st and 5th the next year to the Chargers for pick #1 

This was the Eli Manning and Philip Rivers trade.

Seems like a very comparable situation too with other good QB prospects in the board. '04 had Phillip Rivers and Ben Roethlisberger. '21 has Fields, Wilson, and Lance. Plus '94 had an elite WR, OT, and TE prospect that needed to be fit in too. '04 had Robert Gallery at OT who went #2. '21 has Sewell. '04 had Larry Fitzgerald at WR who went #3. '21 has Chase. '04 had Kellen Winslow at TE who went #6. '21 has Pitts.

Honestly, the Eli trade probably should be the baseline, but that RG3 trade might fug things up.

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LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

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Just now, mrcompletely11 said:

As opposed to whom? His options were pretty limited. 

Are we still trying to pretend that Bridgewater was a significant upgrade over Kyle Allen? Because honestly I'm not seeing it. He fumbles less. That's the key difference. At least Allen was willing throw past the sticks on 3rd and 4th down though. 

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mrcompletely11 Grand Master

mrcompletely11

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1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Are we still trying to pretend that Bridgewater was a significant upgrade over Kyle Allen? Because honestly I'm not seeing it. He fumbles less. That's the key difference. At least Allen was willing throw past the sticks on 3rd and 4th down though. 

We got Chinn because we traded Kyle Allen.  I think it has worked out well for us

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ladypanther Grand Master

ladypanther

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3 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Are we still trying to pretend that Bridgewater was a significant upgrade over Kyle Allen? Because honestly I'm not seeing it. He fumbles less. That's the key difference. At least Allen was willing throw past the sticks on 3rd and 4th down though. 

Allen could not throw a long ball either.  And he seemed to regress.  At least Teddy won the 5 games for NO. Also...he was familiar with what Brady wanted to run so less of a learning curve.  Could see where he looked like the better risk.  

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LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

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2 minutes ago, ladypanther said:

Allen could not throw a long ball either.  And he seemed to regress.  At least Teddy won the 5 games for NO. Also...he was familiar with what Brady wanted to run so less of a learning curve.  Could see where he looked like the better risk.  

Hell, Allen won five games here with a much worse roster. Yeah, Allen seemed to regress and his deep ball wasn't good. But, Test has regressed too and he won't even throw a deep ball. I just think we spent a lot of money to not get any significant improvement at the position and we shouldn't have thrown all that money at Brady if he can't teach a QB his system.

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