Definitely going against the grain here...

[Ricky Spanish]

1 hour ago, Boundary Guru said:

Horse poo!

Not saying Teddy is a franchise QB.

But horse poo

Rodgers hasn't had a good RB until Aaron Jones, and he's only been used properly the past two years. 

Brees has had JAGs in the backfield his entire career until Kamara

Brady has had JAGs and James white. 

Manning had James his first few years then Addai and JAGs afterwards

Ryan has done fine with above average (not ELITE) RB play

Stafford has only had a RB rush for 100 yards like 12 times his entire career. He ain't the issue.

I'm not saying Elite backs don't help, but the best QB's only need average to above average backs because they themselves carry the offense. 

[cookinbrak]

3 hours ago, Boundary Guru said:

I have thought for a while that we go hard OL this year. Next year...

Sam?

This, with a good DB thrown in.

[*FreeFua*]

3 hours ago, Boundary Guru said:

I have thought for a while that we go hard OL this year. Next year...

Sam?

OL this year and Sam this year 

[DaveThePanther2008]

2 hours ago, Ricky Spanish said:

Rodgers hasn't had a good RB until Aaron Jones, and he's only been used properly the past two years. 

Brees has had JAGs in the backfield his entire career until Kamara

Brady has had JAGs and James white. 

Manning had James his first few years then Addai and JAGs afterwards

Ryan has done fine with above average (not ELITE) RB play

Stafford has only had a RB rush for 100 yards like 12 times his entire career. He ain't the issue.

I'm not saying Elite backs don't help, but the best QB's only need average to above average backs because they themselves carry the offense. 

The Saints have made the playoffs every year since they got Kamara.   Not so much before minus their Super Bowl run.

To imply that you don't need a solid running game in this league and that an Elite QB can carry a team is absurd.  Go to every Super Bowl the above QBs have had and tell me they didn't have a running game.   (Outside of Stafford who has never been)

[Ricky Spanish]

28 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

The Saints have made the playoffs every year since they got Kamara.   Not so much before minus their Super Bowl run.

To imply that you don't need a solid running game in this league and that an Elite QB can carry a team is absurd.  Go to every Super Bowl the above QBs have had and tell me they didn't have a running game.   (Outside of Stafford who has never been)

That's not what I said. 

FRANCHISE Quarterbacks don't need ELITE Running backs in today's NFL.

They just need average to above average running backs to be successful. Sure as poo doesn't hurt when they have an elite one - but they don't need an elite running back to win. 

Teddy isn't a franchise QB because he needs an elite supporting cast (not marginal, good, or even exceptional) to win. Franchise QB's elevate those around them like Cam did back in 2015. 

[Tinamedina]

4 hours ago, BrianS said:

We want to run the kind of offense that can win the game when given the ball in the fourth quarter with a chance to win.  You know, kind of like what happened in NEARLY ALL OF OUR LOSSES.

We want a QB who can make that happen.  KIND OF LIKE TEDDY DIDN'T.

Look, apologists can continue to make excuses for TB5 all they want, but the fact of the matter is he lost any stink of legitimacy when he failed all year long to win EVEN ONE GAME in the fourth when presented an opportunity.  Franchise QB's do those sorts of things.  Backups do not.  Oh yea, all those guys you mentioned?  Yea, they did it (do it) on the regular.

This is why Bridgewater is destined to be a backup.  He can only avoid losing games, he cannot win them.  We need a guy who can win games.

 

 

[LondonderryPanther]

I agree we will be better next season, with the defense a year older and wiser we could potentially have less games where we are down a score late in the 4th and instead be up.

 

For me its another reason why we must get our future at QB sorted in this draft because I honestly can see us not drafting in the top 10 again in 2022, and I get that your franchise guy doesn't necessarily have to be drafted however with Rhule's comments about reducing the age of the offense I feel he wants that young rookie that can be molded along with the o-line

[kungfoodude]

8 hours ago, Ricky Spanish said:

Rodgers hasn't had a good RB until Aaron Jones, and he's only been used properly the past two years. 

Brees has had JAGs in the backfield his entire career until Kamara

Brady has had JAGs and James white. 

Manning had James his first few years then Addai and JAGs afterwards

Ryan has done fine with above average (not ELITE) RB play

Stafford has only had a RB rush for 100 yards like 12 times his entire career. He ain't the issue.

I'm not saying Elite backs don't help, but the best QB's only need average to above average backs because they themselves carry the offense. 

Walk the dog on Super Bowl winning RB's the past 10 years and then bounce that off the top rushers for that decade. The results will confirm which you "need."

It is fuging amazing that Ron Rivera(or Hurney, for that matter)got much criticism around here for his antiquated views of running a team, yet our fans are the exact same way. 

Keep in mind that very few of us objected to the untimely and bloated deal that we signed with CMC, despite every shred of evidence that was not a successful move in recent history. Instead people lash out and say we hate CMC or drag some other nonsense into it to muddy the water. 

Successful franchises don't spend crazy money on a feature back while neglecting the QB. That is precisely how you make sure that you will never see a Super Bowl victory.

[Pimpdaddy]

33 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Keep in mind that very few of us objected to the untimely and bloated deal that we signed with CMC, despite every shred of evidence that was not a successful move in recent history. Instead people lash out and say we hate CMC or drag some other nonsense into it to muddy the water. 

 

...This could come back to haunt us and roil the waters if injuries become chronic...such a marty move....

[musicman]

Compare, Watson had an MVP level year in Houston and his team was 4-12. He's franchise QB that can't win without a solid team all around him. He had a good RB. Top end LT. JJ Watt on Defense. Just not enough.

I believe no offseason for a new coach with massive turnover, along with the pandemic rules & restrictions with injuries including CMC was a lot to overcome. If also reading between the lines about Teddy, he needs to get stronger to endure the long season which he hasn't had to do in 5 years. No excuses, just facts. We can win 10 games next year with Teddy with the right moves and continue to have a strong team every year. Maybe we get our franchise QB in 2022, or even 2023. But at least if we are a winning team when we get him, then it might be what takes us over the hump to a SB. Remember, Rhule and Tepper are looking at the longer term picture, not just to win now, which is opposites of most teams in the NFL.

[kungfoodude]

28 minutes ago, Pimpdaddy said:

...This could come back to haunt us and roil the waters if injuries become chronic...such a marty move....

It was a terrible deal and looks worse after 2020. People had concerns about the level of wear and tear for his early career because he was a very high usage college RB, as well. That is a lot of tread coming off those tires, from 2015-2019 he is averaging 320 touches per season(this does include receptions) and he is coming off a year which was the 41st most touches in NFL history for a season. 

All this while the NFL moves steadily away from feature backs as the prominence of passing attacks and mobile QB's makes the game very QB-centric. Heck, we are probably 15-20 years deep into the decline of true feature backs and the move to platoon running, as well. 

But our team decided to have a GM that once paid two RB's starting NFL money at the same time. He opts to extend a fuging rookie contract WAY earlier than is necessary and then make this guy the highest paid RB in NFL HISTORY. All this during the era of passing. 

Un-fuging-believable. 

[kungfoodude]

8 minutes ago, musicman said:

Compare, Watson had an MVP level year in Houston and his team was 4-12. He's franchise QB that can't win without a solid team all around him. He had a good RB. Top end LT. JJ Watt on Defense. Just not enough.

I believe no offseason for a new coach with massive turnover, along with the pandemic rules & restrictions with injuries including CMC was a lot to overcome. If also reading between the lines about Teddy, he needs to get stronger to endure the long season which he hasn't had to do in 5 years. No excuses, just facts. We can win 10 games next year with Teddy with the right moves and continue to have a strong team every year. Maybe we get our franchise QB in 2022, or even 2023. But at least if we are a winning team when we get him, then it might be what takes us over the hump to a SB. Remember, Rhule and Tepper are looking at the longer term picture, not just to win now, which is opposites of most teams in the NFL.

Watson and Houston are an outlier. You are talking about a franchise that has been deconstructed and mis-managed by a mediocre head coach/GM, who then got fired. Listen to JJ Watt's rant from this year. The problem there is the same problem we had last season, talent isn't the issue, the team has opted to largely give up because of the situation.

Once you lose the locker room, it doesn't matter how good you are, it's over. Look at the Harbaught 49ers or numerous other historical examples of that happening. 

It's hard to overcome that level of dysfunction, not matter how much talent you have.

[KSpan]

7 hours ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

The Saints have made the playoffs every year since they got Kamara.   Not so much before minus their Super Bowl run.

To imply that you don't need a solid running game in this league and that an Elite QB can carry a team is absurd.  Go to every Super Bowl the above QBs have had and tell me they didn't have a running game.   (Outside of Stafford who has never been)

The Saints also had a run of atrocious defenses until 2017, coincidentally Kamara's first year. Their down seasons were, not coincidentally, the years they finished with the 32st, 28th, 32nd, and 31st ranked defenses with respect to points against.

[DeAngelo Beason]

Nope.