Question...what if P.J is better then S D?

[SBBlue]

After Wentz Trade, No 1st-Round QB Drafted from 2009-16 Is on Original NFL Team | Bleacher Report | Latest News, Videos and Highlights

 

[trueblade]

1 hour ago, Toomers said:

 

OK. 22 QBs chosen in the top half of the first round from 2011-19. First year of rookie deals that changed everything. 
 

  7 are(were) worthy of that status. Cam, Luck, Watson, Mahomes, Allen, Mayfield, Murray. Tannehill and Goff could go either way. 

13 were busts. Locker, Gabbert, Ponder, Manuel, RG111, Bortles, Winston, Mariota, Darnold, Haskins, Rosen, Trubisky, Jones. 
 

  So of 20, there is a 35% a team gets a franchise QB. Of all those busts, who “turned” it around? Tannehill was on his 2nd contract, with a major injury, on the team that drafted him.

Can you do the same exercise for 1st round CBs?

[Toomers]

3 minutes ago, trueblade said:

Can you do the same exercise for 1st round CBs?

I’m sure anyone could. Just not sure why it matters in this thread. 

[glenwo2]

1 hour ago, Toomers said:

 

OK. 22 QBs chosen in the top half of the first round from 2011-19. First year of rookie deals that changed everything. 
 

  7 are(were) worthy of that status. Cam, Luck, Watson, Mahomes, Allen, Mayfield, Murray. Tannehill and Goff could go either way. 

13 were busts. Locker, Gabbert, Ponder, Manuel, RG111, Bortles, Winston, Mariota, Darnold, Haskins, Rosen, Trubisky, Jones. 
 

  So of 20, there is a 35% a team gets a franchise QB. Of all those busts, who “turned” it around? Tannehill was on his 2nd contract, with a major injury, on the team that drafted him.

If a Franchise didn't do jackshit to develop a young QB, how in the hell can that fall at the feet of said QB and not the Franchise(Jets)? 

Hell...The Jets didn't even have a goddamn QB Coach to help him.    The closest he had to one was McCown, a Backup QB who was with him his rookie season(and then was gone the next two). 

 

[SBBlue]

	Draft Year	Round	Pick
Brady x10	2000	6	199
Mahomes x2	2017	1	10
Garoppolo	2014	2	62
Goff	2016	1	1
Foles	2012	3	88
Newton	2011	1	1
Ryan	2008	1	3
Manning x4	1998	1	1
Wilson x2	2012	3	75
Flacco	2008	1	18
Kaepernick	2011	2	30
Eli Manning x2	2004	1	1
Roeshlisberger x3	2004	1	11
Rodgers	2005	1	24
Brees	2001	2	32
Warner x2	1994	UDFA
Grossman	2003	1	22

These are the QBs to make it to the SB last 15 years. 10 are first rounders. 7 aren't.  

You really can't glean much from it.  Teams win SB's.  

 

[Toomers]

3 minutes ago, glenwo2 said:

If a Franchise didn't do jackshit to develop a young QB, how in the hell can that fall at the feet of said QB and not the Franchise(Jets)? 

Hell...The Jets didn't even have a goddamn QB Coach to help him.    The closest he had to one was McCown, a Backup QB who was with him his rookie season(and then was gone the next two). 

 

   WTF? Who said anything about any of that. I posted names and numbers. What’s the issue and what does it have to do with what I posted? 

Edited August 17, 2021 by Toomers

[L-TownCat]

If it works out that PJ is better than Sam Darnold, it wont be because PJ is some wunderkind.  It will be because Darnold is truly damaged and a bust.  Sam will have to butt-fumble his way out of Charlotte.

[glenwo2]

1 hour ago, Toomers said:

   WTF? Who said anything about any of that. I posted names and numbers. What’s the issue and what does it have to do with what I posted? 

Darnold is on the list of "Bust" which I don't agree with.

So I replied to that part.

If you got that from a list on a website somewhere and it's not your opinion, then my bad.  

But if it is, then there you go.

 

Edited August 17, 2021 by glenwo2

[glenwo2]

34 minutes ago, L-TownCat said:

If it works out that PJ is better than Sam Darnold, it wont be because PJ is some wunderkind.  It will be because Darnold is truly damaged and a bust.  Sam will have to butt-fumble his way out of Charlotte.

Yep.  That would be a true nightmare, imo.

Not just because it would all but end Sam's chances at being a starter wherever he ends up but we will never hear the end of it from CP and his shaking-of-the-poms-poms for PJ.   lol.

[Toomers]

Just now, glenwo2 said:

You put Darnold in the list of "Bust".

And I replied to that aspect.

That is what it has to do with what you posted.

  The team that drafted him, chose to go with a rookie QB Instead of keeping him and getting 3 #1 picks. And he not even done being cheap yet. He is a Jets draft bust. 3 years of average, to below average play. And a 2nd round pick. What team would be satisfied with those results. Until he shows otherwise, he is a subpar starting QB. 

[ForJimmy]

14 minutes ago, glenwo2 said:

Darnold is on the list of "Bust" which I don't agree with.

So I replied to that part.

If you got that from a list on a website somewhere and it's not your opinion, then my bad.  

But if it is, then there you go.

 

Will you relax about Darnold. He just gave you data because you were wanting it. At this point Darnold would be considered a bust since he was drafted number 3 overall and just was traded away for pocket change. A lot of busts are products of their environment. Hopefully he is still young enough and coachable enough to where our staff can resurrect his career. He definitely had some flashes at NYJ and very little support. 

[glenwo2]

6 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Will you relax about Darnold. He just gave you data because you were wanting it. At this point Darnold would be considered a bust since he was drafted number 3 overall and just was traded away for pocket change. A lot of busts are products of their environment. Hopefully he is still young enough and coachable enough to where our staff can resurrect his career. He definitely had some flashes at NYJ and very little support. 

Technically, I never specifically asked for his "data". 

He gave it as a response to @OldhamA.  *shrugs*

Edited August 17, 2021 by glenwo2

[SBBlue]

Just now, glenwo2 said:

You put Darnold in the list of "Bust".

And I replied to that aspect.

That is what it has to do with what you posted.

His list is just subjective conjecture. 

Mahommes is the only one to win a SB and Cam & Goff are the only other ones to make it there.    

The odds are so small to find a Mahommes, Brady, Manning,  and Wilson who can take you there year after year and even then, its still a team effort.

5% or 8% chance the odds are still overwhelmingly against you.

The safe bet, is to always bet against your team going to the SB in a given year.   Which is what gives the critics fuel because odds are, no matter who we choose, they're right.

I think the strategy of focusing on building the team, being frugal with draft capital, and trying to find the diamond in the rough QB is a good strategy.




 

[Toomers]

1 minute ago, SBBlue said:

His list is just subjective conjecture. 

Mahommes is the only one to win a SB and Cam & Goff are the only other ones to make it there.    

The odds are so small to find a Mahommes, Brady, Manning,  and Wilson who can take you there year after year and even then, its still a team effort.

5% or 8% chance the odds are still overwhelmingly against you.

The safe bet, is to always bet against your team going to the SB in a given year.   Which is what gives the critics fuel because odds are, no matter who we choose, they're right.

I think the strategy of focusing on building the team, being frugal with draft capital, and trying to find the diamond in the rough QB is a good strategy.




 

 It’s pretty straightforward. Busts didn’t get 2nd contracts. Pretty simple. Wentz(who I forgot) is like Tannehill and Goff. All played well enough for the team that drafted them to invest a franchise QB deal in them. And I still didn’t include them in either list. 
 

   As opposed to whatever jumble of reasoning you just put out there. My parameters are very clear. You have a better measurement. Please share with us all. Not a single data point. A large sample size.