Is Silver Platter Sam a viable backup QB for Panthers over the long term?

[Evil Hurney]

4 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

This is what gives me a glimmer of hope that we may not be tied to Darnold and that $18M next year.

"When a team exercises the option, it becomes guaranteed for injury only. If the player is on the team’s roster at the start of the League Year in his option season, his salary becomes fully guaranteed for skill, cap and injury."

https://frontofficenfl.com/2017/03/27/nfl-rookie-contracts-explained-fifth-year-option/

IF the player is on the team's roster...

That changed for draft picks after 2017.

"For any Drafted Rookie selected in the first round of the 2018 or any subsequent Draft, the entire Paragraph 5 Salary for the Fifth-Year Option shall become guaranteed for skill, injury, and Salary Cap-related termination, effective upon the Club’s exercise of the Option. " -https://overthecap.com/collective-bargaining-agreement/article/7/section/7/(g)(v)/

[AU-panther]

41 minutes ago, CRA said:

If you can eat Teddy’s deal….you can eat Sam’s.  Sam being significantly worse and all. 

I'm not sure why everyone is worried about getting rid of him, in the long run it really won't matter.

What are our options this offseason for QB?

Lets say we draft one.  Sam can start the season and if/when he plays bad you go the rookie.  Whether the rookie or Sam plays we are probably going to be bad.

Lets say we draft a cheap FA QB.  Sam can be a prepaid backup, saves us from wasting more money at the QB spot.  Honestly if we go this route we will probably be bad anyway again.  Any cheap FA is cheap for a reason.

We go all in and sign/trade for an elite QB.  At this point the backup matters more and you might want to have a capable backup if you realistically think you have a chance at a good season.

People need to quit thinking in terms of winning but instead think about finding our franchise QB and quit wasting resources that don't help whatever QB we find in the future.

 

 

[CRA]

3 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

I'm not sure why everyone is worried about getting rid of him, in the long run it really won't matter.

What are our options this offseason for QB?

Lets say we draft one.  Sam can start the season and if/when he plays bad you go the rookie.  Whether the rookie or Sam plays we are probably going to be bad.

Lets say we draft a cheap FA QB.  Sam can be a prepaid backup, saves us from wasting more money at the QB spot.  Honestly if we go this route we will probably be bad anyway again.  Any cheap FA is cheap for a reason.

We go all in and sign/trade for an elite QB.  At this point the backup matters more and you might want to have a capable backup if you realistically think you have a chance at a good season.

People need to quit thinking in terms of winning but instead think about finding our franchise QB and quit wasting resources that don't help whatever QB we find in the future.

 

 

I mean, if we drafted a rookie....Sam Darnold remains useless.  You don't want Sam Darnold in a QB room with a rookie QB.   You want a vet that actually knows how to play the NFL game helping usher the new kid into the league. 

Sam simply serves no point.  He isn't Teddy.  Keeping Teddy would have made sense. 

[LinvilleGorge]

8 minutes ago, Evil Hurney said:

That changed for draft picks after 2017.

"For any Drafted Rookie selected in the first round of the 2018 or any subsequent Draft, the entire Paragraph 5 Salary for the Fifth-Year Option shall become guaranteed for skill, injury, and Salary Cap-related termination, effective upon the Club’s exercise of the Option. " -https://overthecap.com/collective-bargaining-agreement/article/7/section/7/(g)(v)/

Well, fug. Damn, what a terrible unforced error.

[uncfan888]

You literally come up with the worst nicknames. I picture you as a 60 year old man who sits at his computer all day and thinks the poo you come up with is the funniest thing on earth. 

 

Big Kat is heading that direction

[AU-panther]

Just now, CRA said:

I mean, if we drafted a rookie....Sam Darnold remains useless.  You don't want Sam Darnold in a QB room with a rookie QB.   You want a vet that actually knows how to play the NFL game helping usher the new kid into the league. 

Sam simply serves no point.  He isn't Teddy.  Keeping Teddy would have made sense. 

There are coaches in that room that get paid for that.

So you cut Sam, eat $19m then spend then spend another $4m to fill a backup QB spot that in the long run probably won't matter anyway.

We just keep throwing bad money after bad money.

Teddy is an example of that.  We didn't like him so we cut him and wasted cap space on another guy that wasn't going to work out.  We should have let him play out his deal, or at least the first 2 years, and drafted a new guy.

Best thing this organization can do is to plan on being bad for the next 2 years.  Its what we should have done the past 2 years.

 

 

 

[Toomers]

2 minutes ago, CRA said:

I mean, if we drafted a rookie....Sam Darnold remains useless.  You don't want Sam Darnold in a QB room with a rookie QB.   You want a vet that actually knows how to play the NFL game helping usher the new kid into the league. 

Sam simply serves no point.  He isn't Teddy.  Keeping Teddy would have made sense. 

Good point. And at least a team believed that Teddy could still be a “bridge” starter. And still only took 3M of his salary. Don’t see another team bailing the Panthers out for a backup, if that? 

[CRA]

9 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

There are coaches in that room that get paid for that.

So you cut Sam, eat $19m then spend then spend another $4m to fill a backup QB spot that in the long run probably won't matter anyway.

We just keep throwing bad money after bad money.

Teddy is an example of that.  We didn't like him so we cut him and wasted cap space on another guy that wasn't going to work out.  We should have let him play out his deal, or at least the first 2 years, and drafted a new guy.

Best thing this organization can do is to plan on being bad for the next 2 years.  Its what we should have done the past 2 years.

 

most coaches haven't played QB in the NFL.  I still like the pairing a rookie QB with a legit vet that is there and knows what he really is paid to be.  

if you ever listen to great players talk....they often talk about what they learned from other players just as much if not more than coaches in the NFL. 

Take somelike like 89.  When he talks about who helped make him? Well, he normally goes to the player version of Ricky Prohel.  Vinny T.   I just think that works.  Matt Rhule.  Joe Brady.  They can't actually offer that much to a rookie QB outside of textbook stuff..  That didn't play the game.  And generally the QB coach are preaching about stuff they don't really know in reality.  Lot of QB coaches didn't play at a high level. 

[AU-panther]

3 minutes ago, CRA said:

most coaches haven't played QB in the NFL.  I still like the pairing a rookie QB with a legit vet that is there and knows what he really is paid to be.  

That money you are going to spend on a midlevel vet I'll use to improve the LG and that will help that rookie QB more.

And any vet that is super cheap probably wasn't a good QB to start with so how much do you really want him teaching a new QB?

I agree that Teddy made sense, I always thought with him the plan was if he played well you extended him and he became the franchise QB or if he didn't you draft a guy this past draft and let Teddy mentor him his first year and then you release Teddy after his second season which financially wasn't that bad of a point to get out of his contract.

 

[CRA]

4 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

That money you are going to spend on a midlevel vet I'll use to improve the LG and that will help that rookie QB more.

And any vet that is super cheap probably wasn't a good QB to start with so how much do you really want him teaching a new QB?

I agree that Teddy made sense, I always thought with him the plan was if he played well you extended him and he became the franchise QB or if he didn't you draft a guy this past draft and let Teddy mentor him his first year and then you release Teddy after his second season which financially wasn't that bad of a point to get out of his contract.

 

well, to me, QB remains the end all be all.    

So I would want the decent vet to share the QB room with the rookie.  Renting a Joe Flacco type to work with someone isn't going to break the bank and prevent you from addressing the OL.   Mismangment of the rest of your roster would. 

[AU-panther]

7 minutes ago, CRA said:

well, to me, QB remains the end all be all.    

So I would want the decent vet to share the QB room with the rookie.  Renting a Joe Flacco type to work with someone isn't going to break the bank and prevent you from addressing the OL.   Mismangment of the rest of your roster would. 

agree to disagree

I think a lot of that mentor talk is the kind of crap players and coaches say at podiums and announcers on tv.  Would Darnold had been a better player with a better mentor? or Cam?

Regardless I do think there is a financial trade off you have to look at.  Paying a QB like Flacco $2m i could see some value like that but at a certain point you have to look at the opportunity cost of what else you could have.

 

[CRA]

5 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

agree to disagree

I think a lot of that mentor talk is the kind of crap players and coaches say at podiums and announcers on tv.  Would Darnold had been a better player with a better mentor? or Cam?

Regardless I do think there is a financial trade off you have to look at.  Paying a QB like Flacco $2m i could see some value like that but at a certain point you have to look at the opportunity cost of what else you could have.

 

I think Cam had a fine mentor.  Derek Anderson the ends and outs of being a NFL QB.  The highs and lows.  How to play the game.   I mean, you need someone in the building that knows what the fug is going on.  

I mean, you still have to hit on the talent.  Otherwise, mentors, coaching, etc.  None of that matters. 

[joemac]

3 hours ago, AU-panther said:

Its guaranteed salary so it is tradable.

Only way somebody trades for it is we were to attach an asset to it, NBA style.

What would that take?  A first would probably do it.  A second?  maybe.  A third? I doubt it.

Maybe you attach a player to it, one of these corners we have? Sam and CMC and you get a some picks back? 

I think the most likely outcome is he is on our roster at the beginning of the year.  Either we sign a vet and he is the backup or we draft a guy and he starts as the starter and if he struggles it will be easy for them to transition to the rookie.

In reality the best scenario for the team would be for us to draft a guy, let him sit for a year, and Darnold to play good enough to at least get resigned by another team at the end of this contract and get us some type of comp pick.  Or Darnold plays so bad we get a high draft pick to draft OL to help said rookie that we drafted the year before.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hire somebody to Tonya Harding his ass, and send him packing with an injury settlement?

LOL.

I kid........I think?

[AggieLean]

Honestly, I’m hoping we lose every game from here on out now. I doubt Watson would even want to come here, and I’ve pivoted my attention to Howell and Malik. Even if Sam has to stay next season, I’d still like for the team to try and find a cheap backup, shifting Sam to 3rd string