If we tear it all down again how long would it take...

[mrcompletely11]

2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Playoffs we should expect in 2 years max. The NFC South is trash. Rivera took advantage of that and won three straight titles. That's my bar. You should be able to do at least what Rivera did. If not, bye.

Superb Owl? That's a difficult one. If you just stay in that discussion regularly(top 3-5 NFC teams) then I expect to break through to the game at least a couple of times in a 10 year span. That seems to be about average for non-Pats teams that maintain success.

Sure we can expect it all we want but with the 2022 draft basically a bust, its going to take a bit more time get the depth and starters even on this roster.  And then there is the little quandary about the qb position.  There is no easier answer after this season. 

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Sure we can expect it all we want but with the 2022 draft basically a bust, its going to take a bit more time get the depth and starters even on this roster.  And then there is the little quandary about the qb position.  There is no easier answer after this season. 

We honestly don't know how much re-rebuilding it will take. Given the obvious lack of development of some of our younger players, a new staff will have to sort out if we can keep trucking with what we have or we will need a pivot in direction. And how big will that pivot be?

We also don't know what the exodus of players is going to be like. So, while I say that it SHOULD take just 2 years, I do understand there are some factors that could impact that.

 

HOWEVER.....look at the race for the last playoff spot. If we can't be in that discussion, I think there is a real problem.

[rayzor]

15 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Sure man, but my point still stands, its going to take more then 2-3 years to build a solid roster

Then it will take 2 coaches.

Theres enough pieces to get the ball rolling. Fixing the OL via FA and draft is the biggest thing.

You hire the right guy and he will be able to get the few right pieces we need to get this team winning in 2 and Superbowl in 3.

The right coach can make it work. The right coach makes the most of the talent they have and they get it done quickly. 

[mrcompletely11]

5 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

We honestly don't know how much re-rebuilding it will take.

Except we do know how much rebuilding its going to take.  We specifically know.  We need 4 out of 5 starters on the oline and we need a rookie qb and time for him to get his sea legs in the nfl.  best case 2 seasons.  So we address the oline this year and qb next year.  We are minimum 3 years away IMO.

 

And as far as addressing the oline in FA, we have tried that, it doesnt work.  Teams build olines organically not by throwing money at the problem which we have historically done.  Teams typically do not let franchise left tackles walk.

[rayzor]

Point is... if the new coach can't field a winning team in 2 years, we got the wrong one.

A good coach, the right coach, can do it.

[Martin]

It is all about the coaching. If we would have had great coaching this year we probably would have made the playoffs. We wouldn’t have gone far, but we would have made it.

As to O-line, you can mage significant improvements with a combined FA and Draft approach. KC changed out four linemen this year, two FAs and two draft picks, Rams stabilized their line in FA etc. But you need people who can evaluate and coach O-line first.

[mrcompletely11]

Just now, rayzor said:

Point is... if the new coach can't field a winning team in 2 years, we got the wrong one.

A good coach, the right coach, can do it.

I am sorry man I just dont believe that.  I believe a good coach can show building blocks but some franchises will take a few drafts to upgrade to a playoff team. 

 

This is in no way in support of rhule, i think he needs to go like yesterday

[mrcompletely11]

2 minutes ago, Martin said:

It is all about the coaching. If we would have had great coaching this year we probably would have made the playoffs. We wouldn’t have gone far, but we would have made it.

As to O-line, you can mage significant improvements with a combined FA and Draft approach. KC changed out four linemen this year, two FAs and two draft picks, Rams stabilized their line in FA etc. But you need people who can evaluate and coach O-line first.

They traded a first for Brown.  KC signed the left starting left guard.  Andy Reid is one of the best coaches in history and even he couldnt overcome the poo oline in the SB last year.  Yeah coaching matters but having talent doesnt hurt. 

[Icege]

Many of the reasons for this season's suck are directly related to decisions made this offseason that made the team trend down rather than up. Hell, specific to the offense:

-QB: The Sam Darnold gamble came up snake eyes. A top 50 selection, a 4th close to the top 100, a 6th, and $19M in cap space, gone.

-OL: Elflein and Erving were the major FA acquisitions, Daley & Miller keep getting trotted out to start, and Pat Meyer is a poo coach. Bad coaching + bad talent evaluation on the OL is a fuging death knell for any phase of the game.

 Combine this with the inability to scout themselves, there's little to no result this season that has shown that this staff is able to evolve.

The college CEO/CMO approach does not work in the NFL. We need coaches that absolutely love the game, are excellent teachers, and are constantly looking to improve internally. 

I can suffer through nearly anything, but seeing Rhule throw Cam under the bus every week while protecting Sam is all I need to see that this regime needs to be removed.

[kungfoodude]

32 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Except we do know how much rebuilding its going to take.  We specifically know.  We need 4 out of 5 starters on the oline and we need a rookie qb and time for him to get his sea legs in the nfl.  best case 2 seasons.  So we address the oline this year and qb next year.  We are minimum 3 years away IMO.

 

And as far as addressing the oline in FA, we have tried that, it doesnt work.  Teams build olines organically not by throwing money at the problem which we have historically done.  Teams typically do not let franchise left tackles walk.

Eh, you can still make the playoffs without being a complete team. 1 or 2 more average or better OL additions would raise that unit quite a bit. As would a coach that doesn't play musical chairs all season long.

Remember, the playoff bar is gonna be around .500.

[Martin]

37 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

They traded a first for Brown.  KC signed the left starting left guard.  Andy Reid is one of the best coaches in history and even he couldnt overcome the poo oline in the SB last year.  Yeah coaching matters but having talent doesnt hurt. 

Totally agree, I just think it is harder for talent to overcome bad coaching than the other way around.

[DaveThePanther2008]

We have plenty of talent on this team now.  We need to focus on the offensive line.  If we get some talent that could give our QB longer than a nanosecond to throw the ball we'll improve right away. 

If we get the right coach next year.  We'll be at least competitive and maybe win a couple of close games and be in contention with the bubble teams.

 

 

[Brooklyn 3.0]

Do you all not get how hard it is to get to the SB?

As for the Playoffs, we could get in next year with very minimal changes.

As for being an ELITE team that gets in almost yearly? I'd say we'd be 2-3 seasons away from that ... with extensive changes. A coach, a QB, better this better that won't make us elite tomorrow. We've never been an elite franchise. And I don't see us making the extensive changes.

We are what we are. Bottom team who has an amazing season every now and then.

Love it or leave it.

[CardiacCat]

15 hours ago, PanthersGOATFan336 said:

So lets say we tear it all down..fire rhule. We hire the next big thing coach..hit on most of our draft picks the next 2 years. How long realistically would it take to get back the to superb owl?

How far away are we with our core and good coaching?

Would you be ok with going through a losing season next year as long as rhule is gone to get a good pick?

What is best case scenario W-L record for our potential rookie coach next year?

What would be your first steps as new coach?

Not a single person in the organization is willing to go through a losing season for just one pick (which may or may not work out... there are plenty of examples where the latter is the cae). Those are scenarios that fans come up with, but owner, coach, and players want wins EVERY SINGLE TIME the team takes the field. Hence, the organization is not going to make changes in that direction. If they fire the coach, it will be to get someone who immediately can deliver, or at least build on the strengths we have.