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How dangerous is Willis as a runner? What makes him special?

micnificent28

By micnificent28,
in Carolina Panthers

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micnificent28 Mentor

micnificent28

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41 minutes ago, Michael G said:

Yeah he looks very athletic despite getting tracked down at times. His stats indicate he's a good runner too. I just worry that he won't look so special against NFL defenses based on his Liberty tape.

Well we have the senior bowl game as reference those guys were his peers many of them first rounders 2... he took off on them and broke what a 30 yarder? He looked just as fast and probably better because he had equal talent around him.

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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6 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Call me crazy, but I think Pickett is growing in you some…

Not really. I just dislike bullsh-t arguments.

I acknowledge Pickett could turn out to be a really good quarterback. He certainly has the kind of tools that I tend to prioritize.

My worry is that he's one of those guys who peaked in college and either won't be good in the pros for very long we won't be good at all.

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ForJimmy Grand Master

ForJimmy

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1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

Not really. I just dislike bullsh-t arguments.

I acknowledge Pickett could turn out to be a really good quarterback. He certainly has the kind of tools that I tend to prioritize.

My worry is that he's one of those guys who peaked in college and either won't be good in the pros for very long we won't be good at all.

Just curious, why do you think that about Pickett?  He made a pretty big jump just last year.  I feel like he can keep putting in the time and getting better at his craft.  The 5th year senior thing is a big of a flag...

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Eazy-E Mentor

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4 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Can you actually back that up?

Sorry that was worded terribly. He was the best in college football from a clean pocket and the Panthers offensive line is not going to provide him with a clean pocket very often.

If you want to draft a pocket passer, invest in the offensive line first so you can create a clean pocket more often than not. Then worry about drafting a guy who is really good from a clean pocket.

People want to discredit Willis as a QB and then talk about how accurate Pickett is yet Willis was a better QB under pressure and Pickett was better from a clean pocket. I’m basing this off of the PFF stats you quoted on the first page of this thread.

I don’t like any of the QBs in this draft which is why I keep saying the Panthers should be all in on a LT at 6. Build a legit offensive line then worry about drafting a QB.

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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7 minutes ago, Eazy-E said:

Sorry that was worded terribly. He was the best in college football from a clean pocket and the Panthers offensive line is not going to provide him with a clean pocket very often.

If you want to draft a pocket passer, invest in the offensive line first so you can create a clean pocket more often than not. Then worry about drafting a guy who is really good from a clean pocket.

People want to discredit Willis as a QB and then talk about how accurate Pickett is yet Willis was a better QB under pressure and Pickett was better from a clean pocket. I’m basing this off of the PFF stats you quoted on the first page of this thread.

I don’t like any of the QBs in this draft which is why I keep saying the Panthers should be all in on a LT at 6. Build a legit offensive line then worry about drafting a QB.

I agree about investing in the line no matter what kind of QB you get, but we've spent a pretty good amount of resources this offseason on doing exactly that.

I'd add that while I'm not that big a fan of rankings, a guy performing significantly worse from a clean pocket concerns me way more than a guy being worse when harassed.

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micnificent28 Mentor

micnificent28

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14 minutes ago, onmyown said:

I don’t really care about a QBs running ability. Immobility and elusiveness yes, that is a very desired, elite trait. But legitimate running? I’m honesty not sure why that matters.

Production matters... nobody is saying runn and can't throw... but if the play simply isn't there and it's man to man defense he gives you a numbers advantage and opens up the offense. That's why mobility matters. I'm not sure why you guys just don't get it.

Look around the league almost every single passer has some kind of decent mobility at this point beside Brady. With the retirement of big Ben the age of the statue is just over...

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ForJimmy Grand Master

ForJimmy

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26 minutes ago, onmyown said:

I don’t really care about a QBs running ability. Immobility and elusiveness yes, that is a very desired, elite trait. But legitimate running? I’m honesty not sure why that matters.

It’s a nice bonus assuming the QB can do everything else well. It’s just another weapon at the offense’s disposal. Josh Allen and Prime Cam can be unstoppable with the right weapons/protection/play calling. It’s definitely not a must have, but a nice bonus…

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CPantherKing Grand Master

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He is slower than Kyler Murray and faster than Cam Newton.

4.4 to 4.45. Won't run a true 40 because he did not take the time to practice getting out of his start (don't blame him). He'd likely clock 4.5 with a bad start.

If you consider him a project and running QB, you have to understand he will be 23 at the start of the season. Takes 3 years at best to work out all his problems. That puts him at 26. He has until 28 until his body starts breaking down and he has to focus more on pocket passing from being a running QB with 100+ attempts per season. If you don't plan on him rushing 100+ times in a season, then you don't want a running QB, and valuing that at QB is a waste.

You will have a 2 year window to succeed with Willis as your starting QB if everything works out. After that, you have to rely on his pocket presence, pocket passing, and reading defenses.

Is that worth a top ten draft pick? Doesn't even seem like its worth taking a QB like that in the 5th round. Huge time investment with a 2 year payoff.

If you want to look flashy without winning championships for 6 seasons, Malik Willis is your guy.

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micnificent28 Mentor

micnificent28

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I mean I guess you guys will see.. I don't think he'd nearly as bad a passer as 90% of this board thinks. If you think the competition he played with wasn't good enough to get a accurate judgment on his ability then the same should be said of his offensive line and wrs.. they could have held him back just like wyoming did Josh allen. 

He's not getting out of the top 10.... 

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TrevorLaurenceTime22 Grand Master

TrevorLaurenceTime22

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44 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

Production matters... nobody is saying runn and can't throw... but if the play simply isn't there and it's man to man defense he gives you a numbers advantage and opens up the offense. That's why mobility matters. I'm not sure why you guys just don't get it.

Look around the league almost every single passer has some kind of decent mobility at this point beside Brady. With the retirement of big Ben the age of the statue is just over...

Running should still be secondary at the QB postion, by no means does running mean you can't pass but it does tend to create an over reliance on it and occasionally hinders a QBs development as a passer. 

 

I think there is a difference  here of opinion with most posters... "Mobile" and run first aka "Running QB" do not have to he synonymous.

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micnificent28 Mentor

micnificent28

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1 minute ago, TrevorLaurenceTime22 said:

Running should still be secondary at the QB postion, by no means does running mean you can't pass but it does tend to create an over reliance on it and occasionally hinders a QBs development as a passer. 

 

I think there is a difference  here of opinion with most posters... "Mobile" and run first aka "Running QB" do not have to he synonymous.

Of course it's secondary. A quarterbacks first job Is to distribute the football. I know people think you can throw your way out of every situation but just like how you can't run out of every situation you can't throw out if every situation either. That's why it's a prefer bonus. Teams are taking notice. Mobility really isn't just optional anymore and it's reflected by the quarterbacks coming out.

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