NFL Network analyst suggests Rhule needs Mayfield to save his job

[mav1234]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

No, but to be fair, he's losing it to Deshaun Watson. Garoppolo is losing his to a guy who's reported to still be struggling even with a few years under his belt.

And while I'm not a Mayfield fan, objectively speaking he's got way more good film on record than Garoppolo.

He's also got way, way more worse film, and a lot of negative rumors to go along with it. The only reason CLE was in at all is because he couldn't be the QB they needed... The same issue Jimmy G has.  I don't want to trade for either of them, we've had enough retreads trying to reinvent their careers.

[Khyber53]

16 hours ago, Pakmeng said:

It was far from Mayfield carrying them. They had a good roster. And they want to move on from him because he held them back.

There a lot of narratives in every bad break-up.

[ForJimmy]

6 hours ago, mav1234 said:

He's also got way, way more worse film, and a lot of negative rumors to go along with it. The only reason CLE was in at all is because he couldn't be the QB they needed... The same issue Jimmy G has.  I don't want to trade for either of them, we've had enough retreads trying to reinvent their careers.

Jimmy G's 2021 playoff performance is some of the worst tape you will see from a QB on a loaded team.  He played decent against the Rams, but outside of that.... it was bad.  Jimmy G is also 3.5 years older than Baker and has had the McDaniels and Shanahan developing him vs Hugh Jackson, Kitchen, and Stefanski.  That tells me Baker has room to grow and Jimmy G is playing at his peak.  

[Mr. Scot]

6 hours ago, mav1234 said:

He's also got way, way more worse film, and a lot of negative rumors to go along with it. The only reason CLE was in at all is because he couldn't be the QB they needed... The same issue Jimmy G has.  I don't want to trade for either of them, we've had enough retreads trying to reinvent their careers.

I don't either.

But if I'm forced to choose, no question I'm taking Mayfield. 

[top dawg]

7 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

And while I'm not a Mayfield fan, objectively speaking he's got way more good film on record than Garoppolo.

Does he? 

Objectively speaking, I'm not so sure that most people who are giving Mayfield the edge over Garropolo aren't simply and simplistically doing it out of perceived upside (and/or suspected youth because he is a whole three years younger). I think some Huddlers may be particularly using that rationale and do so because of lack of objectivity.

The fact is, that per Ellis, "...most evaluators prefer Garropolo..." 

"Garoppolo has a career completion percentage of 68% while Mayfield completes 61% of his passes. They have nearly identical touchdown and interception percentages around 4.6% and 2.8%, respectively. Garoppolo’s career yards per attempt (8.4) is more than a yard greater than Mayfield’s 7.3 yards-per-attempt average."

As you should know, those seemingly small differences in passer rating and YPA are huge.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article261788887.html

[TheCasillas]

8 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

No, but to be fair, he's losing it to Deshaun Watson. Garoppolo is losing his to a guy who's reported to still be struggling even with a few years under his belt.

Who is this guy with a few years under his belt? Are we talking about Trey Lance? 

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Does he? 

Objectively speaking, I'm not so sure that most people who are giving Mayfield the edge over Garropolo aren't simply and simplistically doing it out of perceived upside (and/or suspected youth because he is a whole three years younger). I think some Huddlers may be particularly using that rationale and do so because of lack of objectivity.

The fact is, that per Ellis, "...most evaluators prefer Garropolo..." 

"Garoppolo has a career completion percentage of 68% while Mayfield completes 61% of his passes. They have nearly identical touchdown and interception percentages around 4.6% and 2.8%, respectively. Garoppolo’s career yards per attempt (8.4) is more than a yard greater than Mayfield’s 7.3 yards-per-attempt average."

As you should know, those seemingly small differences in passer rating and YPA are huge.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article261788887.html

You should know by now I don't give a damn about stats.

I've watched both.  Heck, Mayfield had a game against Lamar Jackson where he looked damn near elite.

I can't say I've ever watched a Garoppolo game and come away thinking he looked great, or even good for that matter.

I've definitely seen more than one where I thought he looked awful though.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Mr. Scot

[top dawg]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

You should know by now I don't give a damn about stats.

I've watched both.  Heck, Mayfield had a game against Lamar Jackson where he looked damn near elite.

I can't say I've ever watched a Garoppolo game and come away thinking he looked good.

I'm nearly 100 percent sure that you could pick a game out of Garropolo's career where he looked good. Do you remember when they took down the mighty Saints in 2019 late in the season?

My thing is, that you just can't throw out career stats. They are what they are, and are a reflection of what a player has done over his career, and Garropolo's are better than Mayfield's. If you're throwing the stats out and cherry picking games, then that's more subjective than objective. I'm not saying there isn't some merit to doing that, because I know that there is a certain amount of that when trying to analyze a situation, but it's not the hallmark of objectivity. 

All that being said, I really don't want either one of them because of how they've folded at big times, and Jimmy seems like he has a higher propensity to fold; but, don't get me wrong, I suspect they are similar in that regard as well. But, I'll give Mayfield a pass because he hasn't been around as long.

[kungfoodude]

41 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

Who is this guy with a few years under his belt? Are we talking about Trey Lance? 

I believe that would be "second year player" Trey Lance.

Also....where are these reports about Trey Lance struggling in 2022?

Edited June 21, 2022 by kungfoodude

[top dawg]

41 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I believe that would be "second year player" Trey Lance.

Also....where are these reports about Trey Lance struggling in 2022?

Recent reports have been very positive of Lance's development, particularly his throwing motion, accuracy and touch. Lance said that he wasn't himself last season due to an injured finger. In any event, his progress has been palpable.

Just my opinion: I don't think the 49ers would be so keen to want to dump Garropolo if Lance wasn't making huge strides. The FO doesn't seem like one to cave in to outside noise.

[kungfoodude]

13 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Recent reports have been very positive of Lance's development, particularly his throwing motion, accuracy and touch. Lance said that he wasn't himself last season due to an injured finger. In any event, his progress has been palpable.

Just my opinion: I don't think the 49ers would be so keen to want to dump Garropolo if Lance wasn't making huge strides. The FO doesn't seem like one to cave in to outside noise.

Yeah, I don't really have any idea where this notion that Lance isn't coming along well or that the 49ers are experiencing buyers remorse is coming from. 

That seems to be a pretty well run organization at the moment, so I kind of doubt they would be as gung-ho to go down the Trey Lance route if he is going to be a disaster. 

I don't think he really has to accomplish that much to be an improvement over Jimmy G. 

[MasterAwesome]

10 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

No, but to be fair, he's losing it to Deshaun Watson. Garoppolo is losing his to a guy who's reported to still be struggling even with a few years under his belt.

And while I'm not a Mayfield fan, objectively speaking he's got way more good film on record than Garoppolo.

To actually be fair, he's not simply "losing it to Deshaun Watson" as if there was some training camp competition that Watson just happened to win out.  They apparently found the idea of starting Baker Mayfield so objectionable that they instead made a conscious and informed decision to risk throwing 3 1st round picks and $230 million guaranteed to someone who was mired in so many legal issues that his status in the league was/is legitimately in jeopardy.

[ForJimmy]

11 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

To actually be fair, he's not simply "losing it to Deshaun Watson" as if there was some training camp competition that Watson just happened to win out.  They apparently found the idea of starting Baker Mayfield so objectionable that they instead made a conscious and informed decision to risk throwing 3 1st round picks and $230 million guaranteed to someone who was mired in so many legal issues that his status in the league was/is legitimately in jeopardy.

The legal issues are terrible, but player to player Watson is an upgrade over most QBs in the league including Baker (who I would consider mid-level).  The Falcons lost Matt Ryan over a chance to trade for Watson.  Desperate franchises (like us) went all in on Watson because when it's all said and done they know he will eventually play and probably play very well.  Jimmy G's team gave up 3 first round picks for a rookie that has never taken an NFL snap and played for NDSU to replace him.  It's a pretty big difference IMO.  If Watson plays like he has when he does, that Browns team can be Super Bowl contenders.  Can you say the same for Lance and the Niners?  If Watson went to the Saints they would probably be in the mix as well.  

[top dawg]

47 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

To actually be fair, he's not simply "losing it to Deshaun Watson" as if there was some training camp competition that Watson just happened to win out.  They apparently found the idea of starting Baker Mayfield so objectionable that they instead made a conscious and informed decision to risk throwing 3 1st round picks and $230 million guaranteed to someone who was mired in so many legal issues that his status in the league was/is legitimately in jeopardy.

Yep, just like Fitterer said in so many words, if a QB is available, you have to ask yourself "Why?"

The Browns gave up a tremendous amount to land Watson notwithstanding his circumstances. If they really thought that Baker was all that, then they simply wouldn't have done it. Hell, they wouldn't even have thought about it. 

BTW, recent reports are very complimentary of Lance.

Edited June 21, 2022 by top dawg