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Offers for Burns

Mr. Scot

By Mr. Scot,
in Carolina Panthers

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AU-panther Mentor

AU-panther

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

I get the thought process behind wanting the two 1st rounders but elite pass rushers are one of the three most important positions in the NFL for a reason. 

It is definitely tough to turn down 2 first round picks but finding a Burns replacement may take either draft after draft to achieve or cost an amount in free agency that we could simply just invest in Burns.

So if you can replace him in free agency for the same amount it would take to resign him why wouldn't' you take the free picks.

Everyone keep trying to make the argument that you might not be able to replace him with the draft picks, you don't have to, you replace him with the $20m a year you save.

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CanadianCat Veteran

CanadianCat

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10 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

So if you can replace him in free agency for the same amount it would take to resign him why wouldn't' you take the free picks.

Everyone keep trying to make the argument that you might not be able to replace him with the draft picks, you don't have to, you replace him with the $20m a year you save.

Thats a good point actually. 

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Carl Spackler Grand Master

Carl Spackler

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11 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

So if you can replace him in free agency for the same amount it would take to resign him why wouldn't' you take the free picks.

Everyone keep trying to make the argument that you might not be able to replace him with the draft picks, you don't have to, you replace him with the $20m a year you save.

Yes, you replace 11 sacks with 6, spend the same amount of money, come away with USFL rejects and somehow you're better. Air-tight logic.

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ForJimmy Grand Master

ForJimmy

Posted
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30 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

So if you can replace him in free agency for the same amount it would take to resign him why wouldn't' you take the free picks.

Everyone keep trying to make the argument that you might not be able to replace him with the draft picks, you don't have to, you replace him with the $20m a year you save.

24 year old elite pass rushers probably don't become FAs very often.  If they do it's usually a bidding war in which they pick where they want to go.  

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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2 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

The only thing I can think of is the belichick model of the price doesnt justify the production and they let them walk because there just isnt that many more years left playing top level.  I dont agree with it but its certainly a strategy

Well considering we allegedly turned down two first rounders, the FO has a very high value on him.

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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1 hour ago, AU-panther said:

So if you can replace him in free agency for the same amount it would take to resign him why wouldn't' you take the free picks.

Everyone keep trying to make the argument that you might not be able to replace him with the draft picks, you don't have to, you replace him with the $20m a year you save.

Yeah but you have to replace him with someone of similar or better caliber. That isn't going to come cheaply. The odds of getting someone like that in free agency that isn't aging is limited or would garner a potentially even bigger price tag. If you trade for a guy similar, the price you have to pay probably looks similar to what you gave up. 

So really the best bet would be to have a pick in the range where you can get another elite DE talent. If that is the case, it's a wise choice.

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Carl Spackler Grand Master

Carl Spackler

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6 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah but you have to replace him with someone of similar or better caliber. That isn't going to come cheaply. The odds of getting someone like that in free agency that isn't aging is limited or would garner a potentially even bigger price tag. If you trade for a guy similar, the price you have to pay probably looks similar to what you gave up. 

So really the best bet would be to have a pick in the range where you can get another elite DE talent. If that is the case, it's a wise choice.

But then you have to hope you at least get Vonnie Holliday and not Jason Peter, and you have to hope you didn't just give up Reggie White when you just gave up Reggie White and you totally just drafted Jason Peter

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AU-panther Mentor

AU-panther

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1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah but you have to replace him with someone of similar or better caliber. That isn't going to come cheaply. The odds of getting someone like that in free agency that isn't aging is limited or would garner a potentially even bigger price tag. If you trade for a guy similar, the price you have to pay probably looks similar to what you gave up. 

So really the best bet would be to have a pick in the range where you can get another elite DE talent. If that is the case, it's a wise choice.

The idea of a hometown discount is largely overstated by fans.  If Burns is truly elite, he will get paid like an elite one, very similar to any free agent out there.

Did Reddick cost that much last year?  His production was pretty similar.

People keep looking at these decisions in a vacuum, that is how team building works.  Maybe you trade him and of the $20m you save you spend $15m on an edge that is 85% as good, then with the other $5m you improve another position slightly.  Then of the 2 draft picks one of them turns into a good player and that improves another position substantially.  Which combination gives you the best team?

I'm not saying give Burns away for nothing, I'm actually a big fan of his, I'm just staying the decisions aren't as simple as Burns vs potential edge drafted with gained pick.

 

 

 

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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1 hour ago, AU-panther said:

The idea of a hometown discount is largely overstated by fans.  If Burns is truly elite, he will get paid like an elite one, very similar to any free agent out there.

Did Reddick cost that much last year?  His production was pretty similar.

People keep looking at these decisions in a vacuum, that is how team building works.  Maybe you trade him and of the $20m you save you spend $15m on an edge that is 85% as good, then with the other $5m you improve another position slightly.  Then of the 2 draft picks one of them turns into a good player and that improves another position substantially.  Which combination gives you the best team?

I'm not saying give Burns away for nothing, I'm actually a big fan of his, I'm just staying the decisions aren't as simple as Burns vs potential edge drafted with gained pick.

 

 

 

Yeah, I mean there are lots of variables but ultimately we have no real replacement for him so that is something we have to fix.

Also, we are pretty light on edge rushers in general. If we were a little more stacked at DE/Edge, I would say heavy consideration 

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ImaginaryKev Grand Master

ImaginaryKev

Posted
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You need good players at premium positions to win. I could understand trading him if you KNEW you could replace him with Will Anderson or that Clemson edge plus another first but that's not guaranteed. And teams kinda HAVE to pay players to play for them, that's how the league works. If you land a rookie QB, which they're going to do this upcoming draft bc if they don't they're insane, then you can absolutely justify paying a top 5 edge defender. 

And after yesterday you still wanna trade this guy for potential you deserve jail time, I don't make the rules

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ImaginaryKev Grand Master

ImaginaryKev

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Also Burns is only 24 and still going to get better as a pass rusher, I do not care that he's not the best run defender. Criticizing that part of his game when he's great at the most valuable thing an NFL defender can do (getting the qb and staying healthy) does not make you a smart football fan, get over yourself

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Catsfan69 Grand Master

Catsfan69

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6 minutes ago, ImaginaryKev said:

Also Burns is only 24 and still going to get better as a pass rusher, I do not care that he's not the best run defender. Criticizing that part of his game when he's great at the most valuable thing an NFL defender can do (getting the qb and staying healthy) does not make you a smart football fan, get over yourself

He's not a great pass rusher. He's never had a 10 sack season even with 17 games. 

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