Wilks' word vs. Rhule's

[CRA]

23 minutes ago, NAS said:

Rivera team would have laid an egg after a bye week. Wilks had his team ready to go and win a tough road game against a good team. They’re not the same.

He can’t open up the pass game until two things happen:

1. He has an OC who has a better passing scheme while still being a running team

2. he has a QB who can make downfield throws consistently and not turn the ball over

I still contend they are the same guy.  You can also use John Fox.  End of the day all 3 are what they are.  

and what Wilks allowed to occur on the 4 yard is completely bonkers.  Wins end up making people overlook horrific stuff like that.   I think Wilks is great with the players.  But stuff like that, shows he isn't a good game manager of a football team IMO.  Other examples too.  We probably should of beat the Rams.  But Wilks flat out went bonkers with his game management that day.   So crazy that it was realistic to ask if the goal was to lose.

I like Wilks the same way I liked Ron and Fox.   I think they are decent coaches that know how to deal with adults.   But it's 2022.  I want an offensive HC.  

[LinvilleGorge]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'd keep him as a QB coach 

Speaking from a managerial perspective, I'm not a big fan of keeping guys in demoted roles. Usually throws off the whole organizational dynamic.

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

Speaking from a managerial perspective, I'm not a big fan of keeping guys in demoted roles. Usually throws off the whole dynamic.

It doesn't happen often in the NFL.

[LinvilleGorge]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

It doesn't happen often in the NFL.

It doesn't happen often anywhere with the key exception of someone actually wanting to step back and take a decreased role. If you're flat out wanting to demote someone you just gotta sack up and fire them. It ain't gonna work out.

 

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

It doesn't happen often anywhere with the key exception of someone actually wanting to step back and take a decreased role. If you're flat out wanting to demote someone you just gotta sack up and fire them. It ain't gonna work out.

Happened in our front office not long ago with Jeff Morrow.

I figured he was ready to retire already but apparently not yet.

[run-run-pass-punt]

If ever there was an endorsement of the value of leadership, it's the change in tone from Rhule to Wilks in such a short time.

I've gone from mixed / uncertain (initially) about retaining Wilks to definitely hoping it happens. I'll be disappointed if he isn't given a deal.

Plus, I just like him as a human being, and I *LOVE* the type of football we play under him - that physical, wear-you-down, persistent feeling that just demoralizes.

[outlaw4]

Probably more of how Rhule was all talk and no show. Wilks prior history helps in this situation although I still get this nagging feeling Wilks can only get us back to where we had been before; mediocrity.

And to echo others, no way I want to keep Wilks if that means McAdoo stays as OC. Very little of what I saw from the stands impressed me. 

[bythenbrs]

15 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Speaking from a managerial perspective, I'm not a big fan of keeping guys in demoted roles. Usually throws off the whole organizational dynamic.

Only time I’ve seen this work well is when a manager or supervisor is a couple years from retirement.  Employee can see retirement just over the horizon, is gearing down but still has something to offer the organization and wants less responsibility.  Maybe.

[CRA]

Wilks IMO also is getting a bump because of how horrific Matt Rhule was.  Wilks is competent to lead a team.   And that’s a stark contrast to Rhule.  
 

[TNPanther]

TBH, we are witnessing the manifestation of the fact that a bowl of oatmeal smells better than a corn-filled turd.

[NAS]

1 hour ago, CRA said:

I still contend they are the same guy.  You can also use John Fox.  End of the day all 3 are what they are.  

and what Wilks allowed to occur on the 4 yard is completely bonkers.  Wins end up making people overlook horrific stuff like that.   I think Wilks is great with the players.  But stuff like that, shows he isn't a good game manager of a football team IMO.  Other examples too.  We probably should of beat the Rams.  But Wilks flat out went bonkers with his game management that day.   So crazy that it was realistic to ask if the goal was to lose.

I like Wilks the same way I liked Ron and Fox.   I think they are decent coaches that know how to deal with adults.   But it's 2022.  I want an offensive HC.  

Not sure what you’re saying. Typically, defensive guys would have just settled for a field goal and he was actually being aggressive and trusting that the defense would take advantage of the field position. Having been burned by Rhule I am good with giving Wilks, a known commodity, a three year contract provided he brings on better coaching staff to handle the offense while staying true to the team’s identity as a physical team. 

Edited December 12, 2022 by NAS

[CRA]

20 minutes ago, NAS said:

Not sure what you’re saying. Typically, defensive guys would have just settled for a field goal and he was actually being aggressive and trusting that the defense would take advantage of the field position. Having been burned by Rhule I am good with giving Wilks, a known commodity, a three year contract provided he brings on better coaching staff to handle the offense while staying true to the team’s identity as a physical team. 

I mean, all 3 are defensive guys.  Conservative at their core.  All 3 are player coaches too that deal well with a NFL locker room. 

and yeah, being burned by Rhule is making people give Wilks a huge bump.  We should acknowledge that.  It would be like going from a horrific QB to an okay QB.  Then acting like you got the QB situation solved.  But you still just got an okay QB at the end of the day.  

yeah, Wilks went out of his comfort zone on the 4 yard line.  But that wasn't being aggressive.  That was being stupid.  Win skews that.  He could of been aggressive and not been dumb.  Which is what you could argue would have been fine.  He allowed McAdoo to be as dumb as dumb can be.   

In the present day NFL, I would love to have Ron, Fox or Wilks as my DC.  Not as my HC.  Game is too offensive and none of them at their core fit IMO. 

I want real change in Carolina.  I want modern day offense and you aren't going to get that with an old defensive NFL guy.   And yes, Wilks is a significant upgrade of Rhule.  But doesn't make me want that.

[Jon Snow]

1 hour ago, CRA said:

I think Wilks is a fine football coach.  But I still contend he is Ron Rivera all over again.   

I just don't think he can lead a present day NFL team to really contend in this offensive era.  To naturally risk adverse.  And when he does "mix it up"......it stuff like we saw on Sunday with 4 pass plays from the 4.   That's not good offensive game management. 

I wasn't aware Wilks called the offensive plays? I thought McAdoo did that?  

I know Wilks told him to go for it but I doubt he told him to pass it 4 straight times.

What I saw was McAdoo trying to get cute by abandoning the run at the goal line when it had been working all day.  But if Sam has a run or pass play in his pocket that he can audible to then where does the fault lie?

If you want to find a fault with Wilks it would be for not stopping McAdoo when the calls came in. That’s if you believe he knows what every call coming will be. 

[CRA]

9 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

I wasn't aware Wilks called the offensive plays? I thought McAdoo did that?  

I know Wilks told him to go for it but I doubt he told him to pass it 4 straight times.

What I saw was McAdoo trying to get cute by abandoning the run at the goal line when it had been working all day.  But if Sam has a run or pass play in his pocket that he can audible to then where does the fault lie?

If you want to find a fault with Wilks it would be for not stopping McAdoo when the calls came in. That’s if you believe he knows what every call coming will be. 

every play goes through the HC's ear.   And his job is literally to manage the game.  That's not just to call a time out and throw a red flag.   But to manage and direct what are choosing to do on offense and defense. 

the bolded is exactly what I am faulting him for.   And yeah, he knows the calls.  That's what the headset is for.  He isn't surprised when the ball is snapped like we are. 

Look, I can't stand McAdoo and I like Wilks.  But I'm done w/ these clones we have had as HC in Carolina.  I want something new and I have said the same since before this season started when I wanted Rhule gone.  The division being ass this year isn't going to make me want Wilks ball.  And if we wanted that type of HC we should of just kept CMC.